[DAD]

Originally Posted by Quantrill Dad,, lot of food for thought on your post. We had two cars that were blistering fast and there motors sounded deeper and throatier then anyone else. Both 06 R-1. Compression and cams?? Can you check for High compression pistons with a compression gauge? Or does valve over lap prevent this from being a useful tech tool?

Mark
Compression ratio can only be checked with the cylinder head off of the engine. However the only way to increase it would be Mill the head, can't get too much there, thin head gaskets less help, and after market pistons, the only area there is that small portion in the center of the piston. If you raised that all the way up to a point you would probably have 30 to one CR, that is way too much. Another a .060" higher crown would be good for about 16 to 1 a very good number for alky. It could produce a higher compression reading with a compression gauge but compression pressure is also affected by valve timing and what they call effective compression ratio or when the intake valve closes. Cams with more duration usually have lower compression pressure readings..

These little motors come "blue printed". from the factory, BLUEPRINTING is one of them "Glittering Bull *****" words that let us charge more for our work. There are very few machine shops around that can produce results as good as the Motorcycle people. When they give you 4 sizes of rod and main bearings with less than .001 difference between the smallest and largest that is precision.

The things I brought up earlier should do a very good job of checking for non stock motors. These are just a few things that come to mind there are a bunch of other things out there that we could think of.

Now back to motor sound. High compression will not make the pop deeper just louder. My motors sound different because of header design. I made some phone calls but nobody would return them. We have several people over here that are running the new cross plane Yamaha, they have that deeper exhaust sound like you describe a lot like a V8 chevy sprint motor. They are supposed to hook up better on slick tracks but they don't have any more power. An improvement on them would be what they call Big Bang motors. There were a lot of rumors that Kawasaki was going to put one of them out in 2010 but that never happened. These motors sound like the V4 Aprilia motors very very deep. I have thought about building one just to see what would happen. They were big over in England a few year ago in grass car racing. Because of firing 2 pistons at once they were very short lived, because of the tremendous load they put on cranks and other engine parts. The TQ guys did this 50 years ago with the little Crosley motor, in fact one guy machined a crank where all 4 pistons fired at the same time.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Food for Thought.

I was sitting around trying to think of a good way to cheat a little next year. I got on to fuel and fuel oxidizers.

What I found out was that if you want to cheat on fuel it is best to do it with gasoline instead of methanol.

Methanol unlike gasoline is a pure hydrocarbon. That means that it's specific gravity is always the same when fresh, and can easily be checked with a hydrometer. I learned this a long time ago when I attempted to water down my dad's "white lightning". He came out shook his mason jar and the danged stuff clouded up, that was a valuable lesson to me, but it took 50 years to come back.

No matter where you buy methanol it is always the same the big problem is it is also hygroscopic it loves to soak up water from the air around it. This will show up on a hydrometer in the specific gravity of the fuel. Watered down methanol will make less power but treated fuel with the same specific gravity will make more power, so I guess either fuel should be considered illegal.

Gasoline on the other hand is not a pure fuel. It's specific gravity changes from brand to brand and even from season to season, because of this a hydrometer is useless in checking for doctored fuel. Reminds me of the E-85 debacle AMSA had a couple of years ago,, Yea they had automotive gasoline bough at the pump but 85% of that gas was Ethanol and it would be just as easy to add 10% or 15% propylene oxide or nitro propane to that fuel for just a little more undetectable power advantage. Because we do not have a standard for gasoline specific gravity a hydrometer will not help a bit in telling us if a fuel sample is legal or not.

There are electronic gauges out there to test gasoline, but the numbers also vary from fuel to fuel. There are acid chemical test that might find propylene oxide in fuel but they are expensive and hard to do at the race track.

If a race group wishes to allow gasoline as a fuel. To be sure a level playing field for all racers They should supply the fuel to the racers from a known supply that they can compare to at the end of the race when a fuel sample is drawn.

Methanol on the other hand Is always the same specific gravity no matter where you buy it, a racer could take a sample to be checked before the race to check for water contamination and then safely race on it knowing that it was a legal fuel.

Honest Dad himself

[Bill May]

I'm not suprised, cheaters never take a Holiday. see you at the Banquet.

Bill may

[DAD]

When we were racing 1/4 midgets years ago, they furnished the fuel right in the pits. They even went so far as to put a dab of paint between the gas tank and fuel cap. They never sealed the fuel line to the carburetor. Just pull the line off inject a small amount of kikipo joy juice up the hose shake and you were ready to go racing!!!



What I am trying to say is cheating like stealing is real hard work and requires a lot of though and effort to do correctly and not get caught. If a racer would put forth as much effort into car set up, engine tune and driving they would be much faster than if they put all their efforts into cheating. I gave up worrying about cheaters a long time ago, they won't be the fastest ones out there.

Honest Dad himself

[buckshot3448]

you guys worry to much about motors and trying to catch those 1 or 2 that are cheating that your not spending time in your own cars. Even with these big motors the hp difference isnt that high. spend more time worring about setup and drving then what everyone else is doing. I spent all last season on setup and figuring out weird things no one does that would work and it paid off big for me. Oh and if you think i have a big motor ill sell it to you for 800 bucks with the jb weld holding it together included lol

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Bill May The MMSA would like to thank the 75 cars (33 Members & 42 Guests) from 7 states that raced with us in 2012. We completed 15 races (10 cancelled,rain & heat) resulting in 9 different winners on 8 tracks ranging in size from 1/5 to 1/2 mi. Making 2012 another successful season Banquet details are posted on the MMSA website, 2013 rules are also posted. Bill may

Made my GOOGLE map and it took me to the wrong place again. It's the first drive on your right after you cross the railroad track right.

Honest Dad himself

[Bill May]

Dad,

You are headed the right direction. Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

Bill May

[Mike M 67]

When coming to the MMSA Banquet the best directions I can give you is this. From Louisville Ky. Take I-65 North to Exit #55 Jonesville / Seymour, then go North on St. Rd. 11 Approx: 3 miles to Jonesville CR. 950 S. Then West on 950S over R.R. tracks first drive on the right, You can see our building from St. Rd. 11

From Indianapolis take I-65 South to Exit #55 Jonesville / Seymour, then go North on St. Rd. 11 Approx: 3 miles to Jonesville CR. 950 S. Then West on 950S over R.R. tracks first drive on the right, You can see our building from St. Rd. 11

Hope to see all drivers and teams Saturday for the Banquet.

Mike Mensendiek

[DAD]

Thanks Mike last year the darned GOOGLE MAP did the same thing and I ended up at that fish place on the edge of town and asked for directions there. They do have pretty good sandwiches . LOL

Honest Dad himself