[DAD]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby I think the days of $10,000 lightning sprint engines are rapidly coming to an end, especially with this upcoming meeting. Keeping motors stock will be the golden ticket for lightning sprints. In IL, we went to an all stock engine rule in 2012 and it has really lowered the cost of a competitive car. Heck the guy that won the most races had a $400 engine that looked like it was held together with bubble gum and duct tape.

Rick

Wonder if you could get me the name of his bubble gum and duct tape supplier?


Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by openwheel44 I think most knowledgeable racers agree.........on small slick tracks, the motor is not as important compared to driver skills and setup. That was all well and good when most of our tracks were 1/6th miles and small quarters that slicked off big time. Don't know about other areas but in my area......tracks are much bigger that we are running on. Big quarters up to 3/8's. Plus the promoters are tending to keep them a little wetter simply to try to keep the dust down and OFF the spectators. Hmmmmm......guess what? That's when the "built" motors started becoming apparent. Racers realized they could definitely use more horsepower. Most of us are now racing on tracks that can suck the HP right out of your car. That extra 10-20 HP started to show up more and more. then the HP war started for some. Hard tire or not..........tacky or even just big tracks let the built motors breathe. Plus on the bigger and faster tracks, there is no short supply of drivers willing to "mat it" the entire race using all the available HP. Hence....... our dilemma started. No.......we can't outlaw the really good drivers, we probably can't dictate the track size we get to run on but we sure as hell can try to get the new guy and the seasoned veteran on a level playing field motor wise. When I raced full midgets and they went to a tire rule..........all I saw was a lot of "fresh, green" rubber going on the right rear about everytime the front runners hit the track other than practice. Tire bills started to climb dramatically. Plus.....some had "figured" out a way to run tires that were "mis-stamped." The next problem and evidently one still on going.............tire soaking. Something that is extremely hard to tech at the track. The Go Kart guys are light years ahead of us on this one. I don't know what the answer is to the tire situation. That is why I am anxious to hear what others think from each of the Midwest groups. There is a solution....we just need to find it. And find one that doesn't cost the racer more in the long run. I'm not fighting a weight rule. I just think you need to come up with one that doesn't take you to the point of diminishing returns. Like I said........seems most of the involved groups have arrived at a minimum weight they are comfortable with. One that has kept their area racing competitive. I don't see any of them over 1000# unless you are running a motor bigger than 1000cc. We just need to find that compromise all parties can live with. Right now.......they don't appear to be that far apart. I see a dwarf car class formulating a rules package that is debating implementing a motor rule of no motor newer than 08. Not sure this is the answer due to availability but it shows others are having the same concerns. But as new motors become available, at whatever rate, the demand for the older motors will subside. Again.........probably not the answer but it is an interesting way to approach the issue of the high horsepowered newer motors. Before you start "flaming" on me.......I didn't say I support this approach. Don't know about the UMP Modified you are referring to but I think they are similar to our A Mods back here. If they are like our class with the same "skinny" tire.........they are killing themselves off with run away motor prices. Seems the racers are out smarting that "skinny" tire with elaborate suspension systems and driveline tricks. The more HP they can make....the closer to the front they get. To Hell with that "skinny" tire. Now.......we have the B Mod class that has stricter motor rules. It is flourishing by comparison. Go figure? We can debate and yack on and on. I just hope the smart people we have invited to this meeting can come up with a few basic rules that are track techable on this first attempt to unify this class. If we can come up with a rules package that can be used on "National" style events.........it's still a success. We have to start somewhere.

Phil

Do you think that one of those "hot shoe racers" would be able to " MAT IT " on one of those big 3/8 mile track if they only had a 10" wide hard compound spec tire on the right rear? A stock motor could probably still do it with a very good driver, but I think that smaller tire would give away enough to put a hurt on that extra horsepower.

For sake of argument, why don't you are Mark try it first just to see how it works. Fast should not be your selling point. Your selling point should be "COMPETITIVENESS". Most racers don't know how or even care how competitiveness is achieved. They just know that it is there, and that they stand a good chance to run up front or to even win a race. That is why we race isn't it. We don't even look at second place money we just see the WIN payout and go for it.

Bet it would slow the high HP motor down quite a bit and take away the the advantage they have on them big old race race tracks you guys run on. Maybe allow 12" tires for tracks 1/4 mile and below. BUT on those big tracks cut the tread down to 10" and very hard compound.

Being able to "Flat foot" it does not mean that you are a good driver, keeping the car in your control at just a little faster than the fastest possible speed make you a good driver. Races are won by the 105% drivers.

Honest Dad himself

[SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS]

For all of you going to the meeting you should keep in mind clean and fast tech. With that being said i believe stock bore and stoke should be the only tech needed. You cant hide those 2 things. Nobody is going to pull the head or oil pan off a hot and dirty engine after a long day for $400. Good luck on making the rules.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS For all of you going to the meeting you should keep in mind clean and fast tech. With that being said i believe stock bore and stoke should be the only tech needed. You cant hide those 2 things. Nobody is going to pull the head or oil pan off a hot and dirty engine after a long day for $400. Good luck on making the rules.

Would it be OK to stick a bore scope down the throttle body?
You know some race groups require an inspection plug in the block to check rods etc. It would not cost too much to put a plug or two in an engine>

I think some sidewinders groups have a tel tac that they may install on selected race cars and require that all racers supply an aux tac wire for the inspector.

Honest Dad himself

[Mike M 67]

We did withe the oil pan. Put car in trailer and pulled the pan. Pain in the but. But we did it.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Mike M 67 We did withe the oil pan. Put car in trailer and pulled the pan. Pain in the but. But we did it.

Mike

Your engine builder could put a 3/8" pipe plug in you crank case in line with one of your rods, then you could pull the plug and with a bore scope do the same inspection. You could probably also put a plug in the top of your transmission and also view the tranny gears if you wished. This would help sooth the feelings of those annal racers amongst us. You would not even have to drain your oil.

Another way to prevent you from going through the inconvenience of tec inspection would be to replace your "DRIVER".

Honest Dad himself

[SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS]

Where there any rules made on the engines?

[DAD]

Originally Posted by SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS Where there any rules made on the engines?

I would guess they have a lot to mull over right now before they put any thing into the rule book. These rules are for the MALSA group. If they make sense others will follow.

I am in the process of putting a demo motor together, maybe for the MMSA banquet.

Honest Dad himself

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS Where there any rules made on the engines?

leaning to completely stock internals
other then oil pan and pick up

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Wayne Davis leaning to completely stock internals other then oil pan and pick up

Wayne

Stock innards sounds great to me. Problem being how do we police such an animal. That bring us back to that same old Statement. I know they are cheating!

I am piddling with some stuff now that may make it possible to police these things right now. People want the tec quick and fast, and Nobody wants to drop their pan's in the pits after a night of racing. How do we check for aftermarket rods, pistons, cams, valves and valve springs and do it cheaply and quickly. That is the big question.

Honest Dad himself