IndianaOpenWheel.com Sprint Car & Midget Racing Forum





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bloard (Offline)
  #1 1/23/12 12:48 AM
For a long time I have been a proponent of a Sportsman class of sprint cars. Of course we have 360's and 305's and Steel Blocks which are attempts at a sportsman idea, but they all miss the mark. We don't need to segment equipment more and more, leading to smaller fields. We might have 40 sprints close to a track, but 15 are wing 410's, 10 are non-wing 410's, 10 are 360's, and 5 are 305's. Not enough of any single type to fill a field.

Let's look at horse racing as an example. Every race on the card has conditions, but the horses are more or less the same. (forget gender based races). They don't transplant the heart of the horse to move up a class. You own a horse and you try to climb the ladder.

The debate over the $600 to win sprint car purse illustrates this the best. Some tracks cant pay as much as others. I understand that. But I'm a staunch believer that you can't cheapen the product of open 410 sprint car racing by paying $600 to win, or else every track will start to do it if the cars show up. Why would Farmer City pay $1,200 to win for the same cars that will go to Flora for $600 to win?

At the same time there are a group of loyal drivers and owners who simply are not competitive in an open show more times than not. It might be equipment or talent. Doesn't matter. To an extent I think some of them almost encourage low payouts in order to keep cherry pickers away.

But the fans aren't told the difference. They are told there is going to be an open 410 race and they show up expecting the best cars and drivers in the area. When they realize the show isn't what they expected, they probably won't be back.

So how do we create a Sportsman class with the same equipment so that when a guy gets better he doesn't have to buy all new stuff? How do we get guys who are starting out laps and get them to take a check home by making the show?

How about if we had a Sportsman class that was conditioned upon previous success. Draw the line wherever you want, but lets start by saying a race is only open to non-winners of 2 410 races in the past year? You will find that condition on most any horse racing program.

If that were the condition, paying $600 to win would be fine. Tracks would book all kinds of sprint car races for that purse. And when an "open" show or series came around it would truly be special. Fans would know what they were getting. Drivers looking to race for fun, or racing to learn would have a fair shot and it wouldn't diminish the value of a true "open" 410 sprint car race.

Or even a class that runs as a support class to "open" 410's that is a maiden class. You can race in it until you have won a race. That class could pay $500 to win and $100 to start like a Modified race. The guy at the back of that is still better off than taking home whatever tow money he would have received by not making the main show.

What's the down side? I'm not bashing anyone. Just looking for where I'm missing the boat.
Likes: nathans1012
nathans1012 (Offline)
  #2 1/23/12 1:48 AM
Originally Posted by bloard:
For a long time I have been a proponent of a Sportsman class of sprint cars. Of course we have 360's and 305's and Steel Blocks which are attempts at a sportsman idea, but they all miss the mark. We don't need to segment equipment more and more, leading to smaller fields. We might have 40 sprints close to a track, but 15 are wing 410's, 10 are non-wing 410's, 10 are 360's, and 5 are 305's. Not enough of any single type to fill a field.

Let's look at horse racing as an example. Every race on the card has conditions, but the horses are more or less the same. (forget gender based races). They don't transplant the heart of the horse to move up a class. You own a horse and you try to climb the ladder.

The debate over the $600 to win sprint car purse illustrates this the best. Some tracks cant pay as much as others. I understand that. But I'm a staunch believer that you can't cheapen the product of open 410 sprint car racing by paying $600 to win, or else every track will start to do it if the cars show up. Why would Farmer City pay $1,200 to win for the same cars that will go to Flora for $600 to win?

At the same time there are a group of loyal drivers and owners who simply are not competitive in an open show more times than not. It might be equipment or talent. Doesn't matter. To an extent I think some of them almost encourage low payouts in order to keep cherry pickers away.

But the fans aren't told the difference. They are told there is going to be an open 410 race and they show up expecting the best cars and drivers in the area. When they realize the show isn't what they expected, they probably won't be back.

So how do we create a Sportsman class with the same equipment so that when a guy gets better he doesn't have to buy all new stuff? How do we get guys who are starting out laps and get them to take a check home by making the show?

How about if we had a Sportsman class that was conditioned upon previous success. Draw the line wherever you want, but lets start by saying a race is only open to non-winners of 2 410 races in the past year? You will find that condition on most any horse racing program.

If that were the condition, paying $600 to win would be fine. Tracks would book all kinds of sprint car races for that purse. And when an "open" show or series came around it would truly be special. Fans would know what they were getting. Drivers looking to race for fun, or racing to learn would have a fair shot and it wouldn't diminish the value of a true "open" 410 sprint car race.

Or even a class that runs as a support class to "open" 410's that is a maiden class. You can race in it until you have won a race. That class could pay $500 to win and $100 to start like a Modified race. The guy at the back of that is still better off than taking home whatever tow money he would have received by not making the main show.

What's the down side? I'm not bashing anyone. Just looking for where I'm missing the boat.

I hate to say it but I think the same goes for Late Models & Crate Late Models and Modifieds & Limited Modifieds

2024 Season: Race 1 - April 20th Brownstown (Crate LM). Unlike many I don't discriminate on what racing I choose to watch.
SamSr32 (Offline)
  #3 1/23/12 3:07 PM
This area is in much need of a Sprint Car class that people can afford without mortaging the farm. RACESAVER Sprint Series that French Grimes organized is a good fix for this problem. Until this is put together in this area, a $600 to win $200 to start is a very good alternative. There is plenty of equipment in this area of the country that is outdated or not competitive with the high dollar teams, that does not solve any problems parking these cars or quiting. I tried to start SCORA in 2009 and would have worked, but had other problems other than the races. The races were very competitive and exciting for the fans. If cars race on an equal basis, the Sprint Car drivers make for good racing. Thanks, Sam Stockon Sr.
bloard (Offline)
  #4 1/23/12 3:19 PM
I don't see where further segmenting the sprint car class with yet another engine helps a thing. If a guy already has a 410, why spend money on a new engine. With a 410 sportsman class limited by prior wins, you can run the sportsman series for $600 to win one night, then take your stuff to a bigger show the next. If you as a driver, or your car as an owner starts dominating the Sportsman class, it's probably time for you to move on.

But you can have a sportsman class without making everyone whip out the checkbook for the new thing designed to save them money.
spicoli (Offline)
  #5 1/23/12 5:59 PM
Paragon Speedway.

You get your laps every week.

No rules, other than safety.

Good/bad/mediocre equipment, it's all there.

Steel/aluminum/injected/carbed, it's all been there.

Keith plows over the cushion and it's dry slick all night, won't tear stuff up.

Paragon Speedway has addressed most all of your concerns.
2 Likes: cmiracingvids, hairracer44
Wayne Davis (Offline)
  #6 1/23/12 7:07 PM
Originally Posted by bloard:

If that were the condition, paying $600 to win would be fine. Tracks would book all kinds of sprint car races for that purse. And when an "open" show or series came around it would truly be special. Fans would know what they were getting. Drivers looking to race for fun, or racing to learn would have a fair shot and it wouldn't diminish the value of a race.
Sheldon Kinser Jr. came up with this idea in my series but at a lesser deal. It was for anyone in the series that had not won a race (feature). So we called it a trophy dash and the only way to be in it was not have a feature win. Once you got 2 Trophy Dash wins or a feature win you were ineligible to race it...Same can be said for non feature winners race at a track. You could put up good money to win (say 1/3 of what the feature winner $$) and winner takes all...It would give the less fortunate of winning a chance to win against the same caliber of racers as he or she is...now this racer will go to the feature also that given night if they made it trough their series or track the way it is to make the feature for that night...This would be a stand alone race all on its on.

Southern Outlaw Motorsports
Jacksonville, Florida
The Original Southern Outlaw

www.SouthernOutlawPromotions.com


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