hey i am new here just wanted to see what every one runs? how often do you all rebuild your engines? do you have more then one engine? is there any engine from the past that you would like to see updated and come back to midget racing?

[pgray]

Welcome to the board , FastTom .... I'll give your first post it's first reply !

I've thought for some time that there are probably a lot of un-necessary re-builds going on. Just my opinion ...

We ran a 12-head Gaerte this year ; ran it 13 times ( 3 tests & 10 races ) and at the conclusion the engine showed 0% leakdown. There are many who are "freshening" engines at this point at a cost of $ 6,000.00 or more.

My good friend and fellow series competitor , Mel Kenyon , runs the same engine with the exception of a Buick head. Mel's engine has over 120 races ... has had valve work and spring replacements only during this time.

If you own a Gaerte Engine you can actually call and talk to Earl Gaerte for personal assistance with any concerns you may have. This may not be the case with some of the other builders.

Most of the local's have one engine ... the one in the car ! You can easily invest $12,000. or more on a good back-up or spare ; new engines are another matter entirely. A new Toyota is $40,000. ... Esslinger , Fontana , Pink Ford , Stanton Mopar , etc. are not far behind all in the high 30's.

Whether it be a good used midget or a new Beast or Spike chassis , the value of your engine will far exceed that of the remainder of the complete car.

Contributing to these exorbitant costs is a complete aluminum engine , both block and head and the use of a whole lot of titanium internally.

Want a good entry level Midget ? ... there are some good cars available under 20 grand. If money is no object buy the best ... a new wide-body Beast with a new Esslinger and all the best stuff otherwise ... call for quote !

Coming soon to the marketplace is a new Honda midget engine that has been developed over the last couple years by my good friend Charles " Skeet " Bushor of Indianapolis. The engine is based on the S2000 , is engineered for 30-35 events prior to re-build and will have a price tag in the neighborhood of $ 25,000. or slightly greater. Additional testing is scheduled for later this summer. I have been retained as a test driver for this project. I'll update here later as this progresses forward !

Hope this helps with most of your question and hopefully gives you more to think about in interest of today's midget engines.


Paul Gray

:greenflag: www.paulgray28.com

:redflag: paulgray@paulgray28.com

:checkered: www.talk2drivers.com

you got all but one is there any engine from the past that you would like to see be updated and brought back to midget racing?

by the way mel is a grate guy talked to him the other day

by the way how much HP are all of thease motors making for that kind of money???

[Gasman fan 50]

Horse power is part of the program. Torque is good part also!:rolling
If one could, I like the VW.

why the vw?? how about the v8?

[Gasman fan 50]

No weight! two people can carry it! 8 inches tall, it is all flat! Air cooled VW!:headbang Not water cooled! :checkered: Case closed.:checkered: V8 cubic inch limit!

the v8 was oil cooled right? i just think it would be cool in a midget if it can make the HP!

[kstudley57]

To followup on what some of the others have talked about...

The higher dollar engines you are talking about are somewhere in the 375-390 hp range depending on what dyno they run on. Every dyno is different in terms of the actual number but you can compare the torque and hp curves to show differences in engines.

Following up to what paul said... YES, you can run a midget engine 15-20 short track shows without having many issues. However, the engines that you can do this with are only making about 300-325 horsepower and are lower compression in some cases. When you branch out and start to run larger tracks like 1/2 and 1 mile you walk a fine line of reliability and risk catastrophic failure.
I think the reason (or the reason why we do it) why guys freshen our midget engine after 8 races or so is because we would much rather spend $3500-$5000 as opposed to spending $10-$12k because we let it go one race to long and broke a rod or dropped a valve. I will say this, we have owned some engines that ran like old watches and never missed a beat. Sometimes when that's the case, the engine dictates what it wants in terms of maintainance and rebuilds.

The bottom line in what we have learned is to find an engine you can afford (whether it's a $4000 or a $40,000) and treat it like a baby. We take our engine in for "checkups" after all mile races and if anything out of the ordinary happens. It's always cheaper to give a builder you trust $250 to check it out and know it's probably ok that it is to just assume it is.

A final story for you.... We were testing at IRP and a kid from out west was in town and asked if he could share track time which is very common so we let him. He had an esslinger that was 5 races from being a fresh motor and about 1/2 way throguh the test he pulled in with the motor off. He got out, walked down to our pits, and asked my dad to look at an oil filter. Basically the car lost oil pressure for just a second before he shut it down and was under the assution that the oil filer had failed (collapsed). My dads advice was simple, load it up and take the oil pan off at the shop to make sure that you didn't damage a bearing. long story short, he slapped a new filter on it and went back out. It lasted 6 laps before breaking the block and nearly every internal piece possible to the tune of a $16,000 fix. moral of the story... it's always cheaper to do it right that to try to get by when it comes to engines.


kevin studley

[pgray]

Kevin makes a good point in the comparison of lower horsepower engines running under half-mile tracks versus the higher hp engines and running larger ovals.

Using our Gaerte as an example , the engine produced 330 hp at 7800 rpm. The valve train was less compromised with the use of a milder camshaft. There were a couple of ways to go and the other cam was said to "slam" the valves in the closed position putting additional stress on valve seats , stems and springs. Many others would have gone the other way for a little more top-end.

The question has always been , "how fast do you want to go ? ... how much money do you want to spend ?".

I would like to ask Kevin and others knowledgeable this question ....

Anderson Speedway as a short track , and where midgets have routinely run 30 lap features ; add 12 hot laps and a 8 lap heat , your total laps run are usually 50. Now consider the Anderson 400 lapper ... this is the equivalent of 8 races ! Will the non-freshened engines even make the distance and will everyone need a re-build otherwise upon the conclusion of the event ?

I've heard some say that they may forego the event for that reason ...

Paul Gray

:greenflag: www.paulgray28.com