Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

We all agree that these four seperate winter indoor series are much more interesting than NASCAR, as they each put on one heckuva show, parking is simple, and its all rather cheap to attend. Whether it's the Rumble In Fort Wayne or Duquoin.

The problem is that they are ALL oval.

If NASCAR can repeatedly sneak in at least two road courses a year, I say so can we. The open-wheel Modified tour safely runs Lime Rock Road Course in Connecticut and the late Busch North Series ran Virginia International Raceway in Danville, but thats in the summer. With some ideas from road-ringers Boris Said and Ron Fellows, this idea isnt that far fetched. The ovals are a blast to race and keep us busy in the winter, but an indoor Midget road course would definitely put on a show at the Nassau or Hampton Coliseum. :32:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Sorry but, BWAHAHAHAHAHAH ROFLMBO

Is this April Fools or what? Karts maybe yeah, I bet 90% of midget sprint car fans and participants could care less.

January fools ... or not
 

A road course would be entirely different and not that hard to setup trackwise or carwise. Easy stepping stone for a LOT of kart guys.

New Jersey's AARN Series attracted Ken Schrader and Johnny Benson for their biggest indoor oval and the fans came to see Benson flip. Last year, Boris Said indicated he would showup for an indoor road course race if someone installed it

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

We have this here in MA. I don't know if it would work, but it could give you a few ideas
http://www.f1boston.com/

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Thing is, You specifically specified Midgets. You know, Jacobs Ladder, Drag Link Midgets. One you'd ether have to go center steer or rack n pinion steering and Somehow stablize the rear axel. Winged Mini's the wings won't work on Right turns as well. Like I said, I can see Karts. Not much else in the open wheel world till you get into the rear engined stuff.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Midgets are for round tracks They aren;t for the whine and cheese folks :7:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Ever see the pics of Rutman and Roger Ward spankin the high dollar sporty cars on the road course,s.

I applaud your thinking outside the box. You'd have to to run something like a center mounted, dual panhard bar meaning one to the right and one to the left on the rear end and probably something similar on the front just to keep both axles from walking back and forth. That would mean adding bars and or mounts to the frame. Just thinking of how it may work, I'd probably ditch the solid front axle and go with long lower arms and a cantilevered shock setup kinda like the Indy cars have to really help the front end roll all the way through the corners because unlike a kart, you wouldn't have frame flex to setup the car. You'd only have Ackerman to work with. By the time people would get the bugs worked out to get the cars fast, I think they would just resemble a midget frame shape. I'd probably go with a shaft drive with a mini sprint engine so you could shift it for better performance. Not knocking your idea and I'd love to see something like it but it might be a really heavy boat to make float.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

CULVER CITY CA 1949 (Midgets competing on Culver City's road course. The track featured a hill that crossed over the track. The cars crossed over and under one another at that point)
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...CulverCity.png

SEBRING FL 1959 (Rodger Ward competing in a midget at the U.S. Grand Prix)
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...EBRING1959.png

LIME ROCK CT 1959 (Rodger Ward in Ken Brenn’s Offy at the Formula Libra event in which he won)
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/.../LimeRock2.png

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Those pics are fine and all. Now we have raised left rail midgets and even staggered frames. Kurtis didn't 70 years ago.

I might have come off Harsh but IMHO you'd have to create a class of its own just for what is being proposed. You can take a center line fixed axle street car and do it. It's just not practical for a modern Oval track only car. I've even seen some Karts that had roll cages that could do it but Midgets, I wouldn't say its impossible but a major expense just to make it happen. You also have the matter of no LF brake and braking is a major part of road courses. sprints and midgets use em more to just set the car than actual severe braking to be used every second or two.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Another thing to consider here is that in the earlier examples shown to prove "plausibility", Limerock is a dedicated sports car roadcourse, Sebring is a converted airport and the "road course" at Culver City took the midgets outside the quarter mile; the point I'm making is that the corner radii in all three examples are big enough that a solid-axle Midget would have a fighting chance of negotiating the turn. Indoors, the corners would have to be so tight on a non-oval that tire scrub would just about bring them to a halt. Karts can do it because they have no suspension and they're set up to pick the inside rear tire up in a corner. We get around left turns with copious amounts of stagger; ya can't change stagger from left to right in the middle of a race...

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

For what it's worth, the Culver City setup wasn't really and over-under deal; in the first picture you can make out the outer loop and where it exited and re-entered the oval. The elevation change was presumably to clear the wall, but also perhaps to help free the cars up to get around the right turns; see second picture of Troy-boy "freeing her up" big time.
Note also that the road-course loop is clearly abandoned; probably because it just didn't work out all that well.

Baltimore OUT, Providence TBA, Nassau TBA
 

Holy cow, those are some nice road course pictures. So the dream was reality at some point.

AARN is versatile enough to try this out and more than likely at the Nassau Coliseum out on Long Island. Yeah Baltimore was a good try, but they said if they can somehow land another date for Providence's Dunkin Donuts Centre, they wont hesitate because the fans even showed up on New Years Eve for that one. :31:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Midgets aren't that far from the suspension setups used on some great 1950s road racing specials. It might be a good idea to run an exhibition event on a short road course before taking the concept indoors. Probably swap out the jake ladder for the panard bar on the rear.
I've decided that all forms of motorized mayhem should be embraced. Life is too short and regulation/buzz killers too close to dump on anyone's particular form of motorsports.
How cool is it when professional drag racers take on the Chilli Bowl or the 24 Hours of Lemons?
If someone wants to run midgets on a road course I know my gang would give it a try.:)

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
For what it's worth, the Culver City setup wasn't really an over-under deal

You're right. I got it confused with this place:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...nticCA1937.jpg
This was Atlantic Speedway, also in California. It was more of figure 8 course with a cross-over bridge and tunnel. I'd hate to be the guy hung up on the railing on the bridge!

Here's some more pics of Culver City, including a diagram of the road course:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...RoadCourse.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...ulverCity3.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...CityLayout.jpg

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

That shot from the stands is probably the best overall view of the track I've ever seen; it shows the walls have clearly been removed so the elevation change was obviously just to add interest. This shot from the site your pictures are from is of a 500-mile (!) Midget race at Riverside Raceway in 1958, which I believe was promoted by Aggie and won by Allen Heath. I think there was alse a 500-mile Jalopy race and for sure there was a 500 miler for CRA Sprint Cars at Riverside which I remember was televised on Channel 11 in LA because I watched it at age 6. I think it was announced by Walker Edmiston, who was a local TV personality (and later the voice of Ernie the Keebler Elf) and amateur SCCA Sports Car chauffer.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Oh its do-able, and they beat us to the punch. I knew they take winged sprint cars from Winchester Speedway (dirt)and run them at Summit Point Road Course on Sundays, but that's West Virginia for ya. I had no idea CRA Sprints ran Riverside! :18:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by ARCA91:
Oh its do-able, and they beat us to the punch. I knew they take winged sprint cars from Winchester Speedway (dirt)and run them at Summit Point Road Course on Sundays, but that's West Virginia for ya. I had no idea CRA Sprints ran Riverside! :18:

I'm pretty sure it was a one-time deal for both the Midgets and Sprints on the road course, but CRA ran several times on the half-mile oval that consisted of the road course's infamous Turn Nine and a mirror-image connector that's indicated by the dotted lines on the map. Incidentally the map makes the resulting oval look decidedly paper-clippish; I don't think it's to scale. And, the "club circuit" was never built.
Regarding the possibility of AARN running right and left turns with radical-offset TQ's, that could get REALLY interesting...

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

...and really interesting is exactly what will fill the seats. I say we take Thursday's optional Practice One in Atlantic City and try this out. I know Don is bringing his lefthander AND his interchangable Midget at this point........... -->:39:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

I don't think you noticed the tongue in my cheek; by "interesting" I meant "really dicey" negotiating a right-hand turn, what with all that left-side weight bias. :15:
But hey, what do I know? If Don (whoever that is) and his "lefthander" and "interchangeable midget" (whatever they are) wanna give it a shot, I say more power to 'em. Just make sure you post the videos on here...
:44:

Flemington TBA? Nah, but he IS crazy!!
 

Don Adams is my car owner and he is a multi-time NJ TQ Midget track champion with over 200 wins. He also crew chief'd Billy Pauch's lone NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series start to a cool 6th place finish at Flemington (NJ) about 11 years ago.

I'd say he knows a thing or two about radical setups.:34:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
I don't think you noticed the tongue in my cheek; by "interesting" I meant "really dicey" negotiating a right-hand turn, what with all that left-side weight bias. :15:
But hey, what do I know? If Don (whoever that is) and his "lefthander" and "interchangeable midget" (whatever they are) wanna give it a shot, I say more power to 'em. Just make sure you post the videos on here...
:44:

Jonesy

I think OL Larry Rice developed the term for that right hand turn by a midget on "Thursday night Thunder" he called it "Tommy Tip-over".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Originally Posted by jim goerge:
Midgets are for round tracks They aren;t for the whine and cheese folks :7:

I like cheese and champagne of beers...

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by DAD:
Jonesy

I think OL Larry Rice developed the term for that right hand turn by a midget on "Thursday night Thunder" he called it "Tommy Tip-over".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

That he did, Dad, that he did. Got to see some of the Saturday Night Gary & Larry Shows in person at my old home track in Ventura; set the VCR, head to the track, come home and watch it again the next day. Tony Stewart and Kenny Irwin Jr. bangin' wheels just for a heat win. Good times.
I guess picking up the inside on the right-handers would eliminate the tire scrub; that is, until Tommy tipped all the way over and started scrubbin' the tops...:D

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Jonesy

All you would have to do is ditch the right arm guard , them silly shoulder strap and wrap around seat and the driver could lean out the right side ala go kart or side car motorcycle and adjust weight as needed. Then them big old 250 pound drivers would sure have the upper hand so to say on them 100 pound throttle jockeys.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

I think this guy has just about the right technique; all he needs is a helmet and a firesuit.
Come to think of it, he looks a little like Scott Pruitt...

Be a great race

gulp gulp...
 

Now we're talkin! And is anyone going to AARN's Motorsports 2014 Expo in greater Philadelphia this weekend?? Their good friend Brad Keselowski will on hand for the afternoon slammin a few Miller Lite's with the fans :44:

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

From ARDC Back in the Day Facebook page:Mario Andretti (#33) en route to a victory at Lime Rock in July 1963.
If a sprint car can handle a road course a midget can too.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by gearguy:
From ARDC Back in the Day Facebook page:Mario Andretti (#33) en route to a victory at Lime Rock in July 1963.
If a sprint car can handle a road course a midget can too.

Gota remember this post mentioned Mario Andretti & Roger Ward...they don't make them like that anymore!

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

I know some think this was a very stupid idea, but until our guys start doing some road racing, you can keep that door to Indy nailed shut. I do not care if the track is inside or outside.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by 767:
I know some think this was a very stupid idea, but until our guys start doing some road racing, you can keep that door to Indy nailed shut. I do not care if the track is inside or outside.

Just doing road racing isn't going to open the door for midget and sprintcar drivers, they're also going to have to have somebody with deep pockets backing them to have a chance.

Re: Indoor Midget roadcourse? Indoor ideas..
 

Originally Posted by JJMooney:
You're right. I got it confused with this place:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...nticCA1937.jpg
This was Atlantic Speedway, also in California. It was more of figure 8 course with a cross-over bridge and tunnel. I'd hate to be the guy hung up on the railing on the bridge!

Here's some more pics of Culver City, including a diagram of the road course:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...RoadCourse.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...ulverCity3.jpg
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...CityLayout.jpg

Just wondering if there's a clear picture showing more details
of the Culver City figure 8 track that was posted.