New Silver Crown Series?
 

Does anyone have any interest in starting a new Silver Crown series or would like to add silver crown to their sanctioning body? It looks as though the Hoosier Hundred may be the last Silver Crown race ever due to USAC switching to Ethanol. Bob Sargent has already said that if there isn't more than 25 cars at the Hoosier Hundred there will not be a race at Springfield, Duquoin, or Terre Haute. I personally do not want to see this series go to the wayside when there is easily 50-75 dirt champ cars in the United States that are capable of racing and numerous are just sitting due to USAC's choices within the last 10 years. There is a point where everyone has to come together and make a move, whether it be a petition to change the ruling back to alcohol and reform USAC from a dictatorship back to a democracy or go run our cars elsewhere. I'm not the only person tired of there games and neither are numerous people. Please help me make a stand against them and change what could become of a great American racing tradition! My email is GDillingham32@yahoo.com if you have any input or interest.

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This scares the hell outta me... It will truly be a sad day if this ends up being the case...

PRA was ran by someone that works for USAC now I believe. This was the alternative on pavement for the Champ Cars when USAC decided to run Super Speedways. There needs to be someone step up and keep the series alive!

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Re: New Silver Crown Series?
 

Jason McCord and Jason Smith ran the PRA, and in the end it pulle USAC's butt out of the fire, and got those 2 employed. The thing is, if USAC would've gave the teams a years notice, things would be a lot different.

Also they should've talked to Bob Sargeant also. He doesn't have a ball, but he has almost all the ball fields. Of anyone who has done the most to keep this series alive, he's the one. I just wish someone in USAC felt the same way. They haven't really shown that in a while.

Who makes most of the decisions for this "club"?

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Re: New Silver Crown Series?
 

I'd say a blind squirrel.

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They did that once before, it was the PRA. In essence it did stick it to USAC, because they could never draw any of those ugly to put on a decent race. The PRA always had better car counts, and in the end USAC had to ask Champ dirt cars back.

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Do you even go to USAC races or any sprint car or midget races?

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:5:

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The car owners should take over this series before its too late.
There are many dirt tracks at the big Fairs in the Plains States; places they call 5/8 miles, but are really closer to a mile !!!!
Dirt Champ Car racing is only dead if nobody wants to keep itb going


!!!

Re: New Silver Crown Series?
 

In the niche sports world of dirt track racing, Silver Crown cars are truely a niche class. While they may be the link to the past and the last link to the Indy 500, there is a reason that this series is on the downturn. While you claim there are 50-75 dirt cars out there, there is only five dirt tracks on the schedule this year. The entire Silver crown schedule consist of a 9 race schedule. It is easy to see why the owners of these cars are not excited about putting the money into the cars.

I watched my first Silver Crown race on a mile track last year. I was glad that I was able to watch the Silver Crown cars race because it is a link to the past. However, as a die-hard race car fan, I was not blown away. If I had to prioritze my spending money on what shows I wanted to see, Silver Crown would be towards the very bottom of the list. While it is easy to blame USAC and the promoters for the current situation, the truth is that people vote by putting the butts in the seats. There is not a lot of fan demand for silver crown cars. If there was, more promoters would be running them.

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Does anyone know if USAC waved the licsence fee or reduced it to try to help the owners make the switch. Unless your head is 2 feet under the sand you have to think that USAC got a nice hunk of change from the fuel deal?? I can't imagine shooting yourself in the foot for no reason unless you stand to make a little jingle?
To liscense a car and driver and 3 man crew, plus entry fee,(all of which goes toward the million $ payroll) a owner will put out of pocket around $1800!! Thats not pit pass money, thats not money toward the purse, thats money for USAC!!! 11th place on the mile pays $700!!

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It didn't work the first time when car owners tried run it on their own. Even with Tony Stewart in the field, PRA had a slim crowd at IRP back a few years ago. The Silver Crown series never really recovered after the "new car experiment" of a few years.

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Your USAC hatred in every post is starting to smell like sour grapes.

I did a little simple research and found some answers for you.

http://www.usacracing.com/silvercrow...s_sc/5247.html says that all fuel is supplied by USAC and races pay a minimum $700 to start. Also, it looks like your car/driver & 3-man crew membership would cost $1250.

Question- what's the average race fuel bill for a silver crown season?

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Re: New Silver Crown Series?
 

Fuel provided = no fuel bill

I would like to know when and where Bob Sargent said that about not promoting anymore if they don't get 25 cars at the Hoosier Hundred. I will be picking up a new SC engine in Indy Memorial weekend and am planning on racing starting at Springfield. Hope I'm not wasting my money. USAC might just self promote those shows anyway and we would probably see better track prep than Sargent. Sargent tried to cancel the Hoosier Hundred last year but McCord went out and worked on the track himself and talked Sargent out of it and ended up with a huge crowd. The weather forecasts were terrible for Springfield and DuQuoin last year which hurt the turn out.I heard USAC even did some of their own advertising for Springfield to help out Sargent. USAC is saving us $400 per race in fuel cost and have also increased the purse to $700 to start which equates to a minimum $600 cheaper deal per race for us.

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Never blame Bob or USAC for track prep, there is nothing that can be done to these surfaces as they are used year round by the horsemen, and there is now way around the fact that racing is a guest in someone elses backyard (on the miles). Worked with Bob for years and he has done everything he can. Given perfect conditions you might get a cushion at DuQoin but thats it. Stop and think about all the hot as hell day shows they have run, and there was never a dust problem on the miles! That did not happen by accident!

When Foyt promoted the Champ Cars races at Indy in the 80s and early 90s the tracks were good. Even good for a couple of the Friday night WoO Shows too. I still remember The King running down and passing Sammy for the Win! He said he never lifted for like the last 10 laps of the 25 lapper! That's awesome! Whoever did track prep back then, would be great to do it now!

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I saw some sprint car races in the 80's and early 90's that had great tracks! But about 12 years ago the mile tracks in the mid-west switched their focus to horsemen, which also resulted in surfaces with a LARGE % of sand.

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Ive been at Springfield at 6 am and Sarge is working. People forget he gets the track AFTER Friday nights concert and not any sooner. Also the other change is no more calcium chloride, which makes a huge difference on the miles.

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First, I love the Silver Crown cars and would love to have one and have toyed with the idea for a long time.....however, sometimes reality is ugly and it looks like the Silver Crown Series is going to end.....starting a new organization is not going to save it, not using Ethanol is not going to save it, going on and on on message boards is not going to save it.....as terrible as it is, we all just have to accept reality. The top level organizations and top level IRL ownrs have made the "Champ Cars" an insignificant division with no future.....the fans have abandoned it because it no longer attracts the Nations Best Drivers......just kids buying rides, some old guys hangin' on, and a few good shoes who have to perform this task for their car owners because they already have the car. That is reality folks.....I hate it, but the facts are the facts.

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Let's wait for that fat lady to sing her song, I think it was called "When the Moon comes over the mountain", I used to watch her in a big old box on the dineing room table as a kid.. In 78 when USAC did it's thing at Indy The car owners took over and did their thing and came up with "CART". Darned near killed Indy car racing. Then Tony George came in and threw them a curve ball and put them out of business. Everybody wants to be like Europe. I kinda of like Indiana myself. Ninty nine point nine percent of the tracks here are oval and most of them are dirt.

USAC does not do a real good job of getting it's point across, They aren't good at promoting things, when some fly by night comes in and throws them a pitch and maybe a little money they jump right on it. This seems to be a pattern for them. Kenny Brown has put a real hurt on their midget deal and has really grown the midget series. Maybe This is the time to find somebody like Mr. Brown and strike out with a new BIG CAR LEAGUE.

Change the rules, No single purpose cars same car must be registered and used on both dirt and pavement track. Get ride of that old underpowered motor and find something new and with some real guts 410 plus or turbo or DOHC make that owners choice. Raise the drivers min age to 21. Keep the fuel right where it is, that helps seperate the men from the boy's and the newbe from the Jurneymen.

Most of the guy's racing the BIG CARS are the guys that have been around for a while. Most of them are businessmen they know how to make money and how to have fun and spend it. If USAC is going to keep on doing "STUPID" things these guys need to find a big old round table somewhere and sit down and make "BIG CARS" or "CHAMP CARS" a money making deal. Give these young kids something to work toward.

It's kinda of funny most Midget drivers have the same last name as their owner's. Very few Sprint Car and even fewer Silver Crown drivers share the same last name.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 9:47 PM ----------


Calcium Chloride isn't that what they used to put on dirt to hold the moisture in the track so they would stay together? Why don't they use it anymore? Really worked good.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: New Silver Crown Series?
 

DAD, some deal named the EPA said no more calcium chloride, dang government.

As for drivers, ask anyone of them and they'd love to run a champ dirt car. I also say as I have for 3 years,put them at the Burg, it would put the cars in the fans laps, and let them see what it is all about. But then again I may be wrong. maybe if you could figure out how to race them on a smartphone, the youngsters would get involved.

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To DAD.....regarding your post just above this reply.....

I ran out of fingers so I had to stop counting the good points and ideas in your post once I got to 10...and I'm not even talking about the Indycar history lesson at the beginning...

I would love to see the "Crown" series flourish regardless of who's in charge....at the very top of my bucket list is finding a seat to run 100 laps in a 100 inch open wheeler on a dirt mile...

I would love to see an engine program update...there is a remote chance of manufacturer involvement if some of their newer technology could be showcased...yeah that's a longshot but keep in mind that Toyota & Mopar have a presence (yes it's minor) in midget racing, and Roush/Yates is trying really hard to get the blue oval to the top of the sprintcar world.

It would be SOOOOOOOO cool to see a crazy mixture of engines again...that right there is a modern way to remind people of the good old days at the brickyard...pushrod injected motors, DOHC high winders, rotary valves, diesels (betcha Bully Dog would throw some support at a diesel powered crown car), turbos on any and everything possible...foreign, domestic, marine, aircraft, industrial...bring em all on!!!

Regarding what Kenny Brown has done...that is a good point but there is also a counter point hidden there with a historical similarity... In a way Kennys series has helped the USAC midget series...there are some really good caliber teams from PowrI that do support USAC when possible. More good midget racing adds value to any good midget racing...more equipment out there, more exposure, more opportunity to race, competition between series to provide a better product to promoters, fans and car owners....and don't forget....RIVALRIES!!!!!!!

What's historical about that you ask?? Without stirring up a hornets nest and making you Indiana folks mad (if possible...haha) I would like everybody to remember the 1980s and Oklahoma....The 100inch supermodifieds from OK were similar enough to Crown cars that there was participation back and forth...Okie businessman Llyod K Stephens fielded a car for Ron Shuman for the entire USAC campaign....Co sanctioed races with 60 or more cars, grandstands FULL of people, an "US VERSUS THEM" mentality on both sides...a Rich Vogler versus the entire sooner state near riot, and stories and memories that still stir up emotion in thousands of people when mentioned 30 years later.

If there was a Kenny Brown type movement west of the Mississippi River for 100inch cars we could see something like those days again....the Okies still love the long wheelbase cars it seems....Or how about a "MUST SEE RACING CHAMPIONS CROWN SERIES"

It needs to be modern enough to be affordable (more horsepower can be made much cheaper than a 355CI mechanical injected pushrod motor), but still needs the appearance of the good old days style cars....

Drivers should have to bring some sort of credentials other than the family bank account to participate...

Yes the cars should be dual surface cars, and I think there is a way to police that effectively...If a Dave Steele type guy shows up at ONLY the pavement races with a better mousetrap for pavement nobody else will want to run a dirt car against him....so how do you stop that from happening...maybe modest race purses, or flat pay scale race purses, with a ridiculously large point fund for the end of the year....use sponsor dollars for point fund only...let promoters have a show that they can afford with a smaller purse, plus a sanction fee to go into the point fund.

There are plenty of racetracks half mile and larger, dirt and pavement, still left in this country...there just needs to be a product with demand and value so these tracks want it.

Due to where I live I have only been able to see 1 big car race in person in my life, but I would love to see 10 a year. I love the Crown cars...I hate it when people talk about their impending demise...and I get a bit slap happy this late at night and tend to ramble....haha

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I will repeat a statement from my earlier post. Fans vote by putting butts in seats. Promoters promote races that make money. It is obvious by the lack of races that Silver Crown cars are on the decline.

Let's assume that you have a choice to go to a $10,000 to win, $1,000 to start race. Lets assume that you were guarntied at least 35 cars. Lets assume you had to pay $35 for your ticket. What type of cars would you want to see? USAC sprints, USAC/POWRI midgets, USAC Silver crown, WOO Sprints, WOO late models, USMTS modifieds? For most dirt track fans, the silver crown cars would be the last choice.

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AMEN:

I started out racing micro's in the late 50's across the river from Indiana down in Kentucky. OK I'm a Hill billy and prowd of it. So I'm well aquainted with Okie racing and Okie racing technology. Those guys did things to Cushmans that would be classified as chrimes aganist humanity today. Reverse Cross porting, water cooling, when they got done with them you couldn't even tell they were Cushmans and they sure didn't run like Cushmans either. I know you guys got racing in your blood and you aren't contaminated by some of this Inbred Indy thinking that you got to be just like the guy that beat you last week, you know "FOLLOW" the leader. AJ is racing this year with a young kid from Oklahoma, and from what I have seen you guys may have a little Kentucky in you blood also, this kid has a thing aganist shoes. I'm working on his right foot modulation problem right now, did I say you guys are hard headed too.

I don't see anything wrong with a Sooner based program. What is needed is one guy with a plan and the courage to follow-through. When you put things in committee you end up with USAC or worse. Give it to Bill France Sr. you come up with NASCAR (not my idea of racing) but it works. Unlike USAC if you aren't producing you are "FIRED" and replaced with someone that can.

While the new guys are at it could they try to get us a date at the track at 16th and Georgetown Rd in Indy. You don't need Aero to race there in fact I think racing would be better without the draft. Back in the day they did it all with HORSEPOWER and GONADS and COMMON SENSE. I was also thinking about the people at "Must See Racing" could be the ones to do something like this. This might be the time for a new*** CHAMP CAR SERIES*** "open under new management".

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Committee...when a bunch of people who can do nothing get together and decide nothing can be done.

A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee...

Anything really successful needs to have one clear cut leader...

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One race, I guess you missed the old 270 Offy's big old throaty exhaust, the 4 cam Ford's scream and guys running two and three abreast inches apart from each other side by side and having the rear ends backed in so far that they were headed down the back stretch by the time they were half way through one of them long old turns. Not every big car race is exciting but once you have watched one you would get hooked for life just like a "junkie" just thinking about the next great race . Once upon a time there were great drivers and great cars, I think they can be just around the corner if "CHAMP CARS" come back. You really don't know what you have missed if you think one race is enough to make your mind up.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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EPA is one of those epitaph's that should be banned from the IOW as well as some of those that I like to use. We don't need any government help to ruin racing, we already have the people in place that can do that by themselves. I kinda of liked a little salt in my water. If it works good the government thinks they should make a law aganist it.

Maybe Big Cars is an acquired taste like beer. Take a big car and a midget and park them beside one another to get an idea of just how big these Big Cars are. Imagine starting a race with 800 pounds of fuel behind the rear axil and driving that car until the tank is empty. On our little cars 20 pounds throws things way off and makes them hard to maneuver around. The guy that can hold on to one of these things for a 100 miles is some kinda of driver to me. Somebody described these cars a poetry in motion, I kinda of think of them as more like ballet. I feel just like that news caster on MSNBC when I watch these things race side by side inches apart it makes a tingle go up and down my leg. You can screw up and man handle a midget but you are flat out wrong thinking you screw up and man handle one of these things and get back in shape. Sometimes the enjoyment for me is to appreicate what is required to do a job and do it right.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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One of the reason's they don't use calcium chloride any more, is from the "horsey Folks". and they bring more money than the "alky" burners do, we had to quit using it years ago, because the track we "shared" with the horse's, said it made the horse's hoove's soft, and that was it, no further discussion, end of argument, liquid soap works real good, but the EPA has a thing about "run off", and "wet lands", so that has been banned, of course, it was oil before all of that, and we all know what happened there, so unless someone comes up with something that the "green" folks will approve, it'll be water, and we all know where that is headed! Bob!:)

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Did Larry O. change his handle on this forum?

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Well I have yet to see a comparison between Silver Crown racing and competitive roller skating or Focus Midgets so it must not be LarryO....hahahahaha

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I won't say what sanctioning body it is, but there is interest in starting a new series if anyone, drivers and car owners especially, has any interest in getting the ball rolling. To everyone who has added their input, it is much appreciated but for someone who has loved the silver crown series since his first time seeing them they are exciting, but as said they are an acquired taste. Over years though there has been numerous races that have been VERY exciting including the 2010 Sumar Classic when the lead was changed numerous times, the year when Rich Tobias started 25th at DuQuoin and won, and especially if you go to YouTube and watch the Hawkeye Hundred at Knoxville. This is a legacy that many drivers and owners would do anything just to have an opportunity to be part of and many former dirt track open wheel drivers would be broken hearted to see end, Jack Hewitt, Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne, A.J. Foyt. We cannot let this come to an end and i'll be proud to go down with it if it does. Please help me in supporting this cause.

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NASCAR and ARCA kinda of go together, there is a good chance if you have a NASCAR race at a big track you might also find an ARCA deal at the same race track earlier that weekend. I would think It cost a lot of money to open one of these big tracks up for just one race and there might be a chance to to run a big car race on the day before giving the fans that get there early a chance to see another type of racing. Who knows they might acquire a taste for this kind of racing also. I guess there is little chance of the Indy cars or NASCAR coming to the DuQuoin or Springfield mile tracks.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

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Springfield and DuQuoin will run as scheduled. There is no truth to Bob Sargent saying he would cancel the shows under ANY circumstances. People need to get their facrts straight. Anyone who says else wise is talking out the side of their A$%.