IndyCar's Future
 

Seeing how it is the off-season, and IndyCar is an open wheel series, albeit rarely mentioned here, there are some interesting rumblings about the 2024 season and beyond.

Two articles from www.racer.com. Both good reads:

The first is a "suggestion" from American Honda Motorsports Manager Chuck Schifsky in which a good way to contain costs is to go to a spec engine that Ilmor Engineering could develop. Note that this would allow Honda to slip away from the series.

An excerpt:

“I think there are several areas where you could save money,” Schifsky told RACER. “The biggest way that you could do that is to take a page out of the development of the hybrid system. So the hybrid system, once it’s up and developed and in the cars, and you’ve worked out all the bugs, and it debuts, the bulk of that development cost is finished. Everybody’s using the same part.

“You can’t mess with it. Teams can’t take it to their super-specialized dynos to trick out their supercapacitor packs or any of that. And so one could look at that and say that we should probably do the same thing with the ICE, where it’s a spec engine; everybody runs the same engine. Ilmor could build it.”

Honda’s suggestion for Ilmor Engineering to become the series’ sole ICE supplier, which is co-owned by IndyCar Series owner Roger Penske, which also builds Chevy’s IndyCar engines, is nothing less than remarkable.

https://racer.com/2023/12/13/hondas-...-supply-costs/

Note that the aforementioned hybrid system mentioned will be spec for both Honda and Chevrolet and at this time will be implemented AFTER the 2024 Indianapolis 500.

The second is a response from General Motors’ VP of Performance and Motorsports Jim Campbell. He essentially skirted the question of whether GM would be willing to be involved in a one make spec engine series and stated that they prefer to compete against another manufacturer.

https://racer.com/2023/12/15/chevy-t...indycar-costs/

Enjoy the articles.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Anything they can do to not be EV powered, would be GREAT (I know these articles are talking about Hybrids, not EVs; but thats on all the OEMs minds...mainly that they aren't selling off of their dealer lots...lol).

I hope they keep the package they have (the racing is great; for a rear engine series that runs a few ovals; anyway), with or without Honda; for sometime. If that isn't an option, then I think the Ilmor deal is a great idea! (One I had before the latest Honda story came out).

Its too bad Chevy & Honda can't supply a couple more engines in May; however these teams are doing it ($ wise) there appears to be more interested teams than engines available.

Otherwise, I'd really wished it was like the first couple years of the IRL when shops like Ed Pink and others were able to build them, but I don't see that happening again.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

What a bunch of crap, Honda wants to leave, Leave. Someone will step in. Hell let Penske's diesel company make the motors. Allow Jake Braking. :)

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

No one has stepped in to be the 3rd OEM; and they have been trying for years...it is said that Honda would stay IF the 3rd OEM came in (to help divide the costs).

I'm really fine with Ilmor, Cosworth, or the such; but they don't come with marketing support ...ideally they could hopefully keep the cost the same for the teams tho; OR even cheaper???

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Honda will not leave, they are only interested in developing electronics.Look at what is going on in IMSA, the future is not internal combustion!

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Then there is no future. Because without the sound of it. the rumble of it. Half the experience is lost.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

[QUOTE=Charles Nungester;570894]Then there is no future. Because without the sound of it. the rumble of it. Half the experience is lost.

Spot on, Charles.

I gave up on the Thunder Boats when the turbines replaced those thundering Merlins!

I remember standing on the bank 50 feet above the water and the ground literally shook. The turbines were faster and I realize the Merlin engines were getting hard to come by, but they lost me and my friends. In fact, that is around the time I really started paying attention to sprint cars.

Indy was wise in outlawing the turbine.

Unfortunately, Indy Car has become a spec series little different from IROC.

After forty one Indy 500's, I gave up my tickets this year. I just can't get interested in them.

My sentiments almost spot on, before my tour in DC,I hardly missed the Regatta in Madison, and really enjoyed the Presidents cup in DC, my office and apartment were only a few blocks from the action, and of course we attended the 2 yrs we were there, the sound was what made it for me, the roost may be bigger, but the sound is not there, I had a friend who helped crew on Miss Madison, and he helped me get up close and personal with those real motors

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

At some point relatively soon, a series will go all electric. Win on Sunday sale on Monday still applies. GM stated vision is to have an all electric fleet by 2035.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Let us not get hybrids confused with EVs, gents.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Good luck with that.

Just make the Indy 500 a Silver Crown race. Problem solved.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Growing up in Detroit in the 60s, I can relate to your feelings quite well, men. There was nothing like the sound of those things.

Sounds aside, if you read the articles on racer.com, Some of the fans' comments were interesting.

Is Honda wanting to get out to spend more time, effort, and dollars on F1? What might GM do if they are eventually "allowed" into F1 with Andretti and eventually as an engine supplier? A third supplier is not an option right now.

It will also be interesting to see how this hybrid system performs early on in 2024 after the 500. If reliability rears its head, all of the teams have the same system. Hopefully this aspect of the formula will be a smooth transition.

IndyCar outside of the 500 is minor league Formula 1.

A spec engine is fine as long as the supposed cost savings result in much larger car counts. It’s absolutely pathetic that there are not 50+ cars attempting to qualify for the Indy 500.

I don’t think it is necessarily GM’s vision to be all electric, it the governments vision for GM to be all electric. Consumers certainly aren’t there at this point.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Indy cars only option MILE DIRT

I did not know a Detroit company builds the Chevy Indy car engine. And puts Chevy on the valve cover. And does anybody know who owns Ilmore? I think it started long ago in England. Alot of history here that affected racing.
Lynn

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Ilmor is a British independent high-performance motor racing engineering company. It was founded by Mario Illien and Paul Morgan in November 1983. With manufacturing based in Brixworth, Northamptonshire, and maintenance offices in Plymouth, Michigan, the company supplies engines and consultancy to the IndyCar Series and MotoGP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmor

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

There seems to be more interest (in fielding a car) than engine leases available. Not 50+, but Honda & Chevy can barely supply the 33.

No matter what, racing is not like it used to be (when there was 55+ cars). It doesn't mean as much as it used to; to be part of smthn. There are more options to race in a division where people think they can win (countless sports car classes, etc).

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

So…only two races/year? Only two MILE DIRT tracks still operating for car racing are the Illinois State Fairgrounds in Springfield,IL, and the DuQuoin Mile in DuQuoin, IL.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

I meant in addition to the regular schedule, dont be stomping on my hopelessly futile dream

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

......

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

I am glad some of you weren't around when the automobile was invented. We would all be riding horses.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Just like this version of a rear-engine race car; the street cars of today offer more than everything that is needed, is a great product, and are very safe. Everything doesn't have to be redesigned and imagined just to fit an agenda...

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Exactly! There is no reason in the world, why a spec engine should cost even a fraction of what they are paying now. If it's the same across the board, there is absolutely no reason to be ging for some exotic type of engine. Just make solid, equal horsepower in a durable package.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

In MY OPINION, if IndyCar could provide races that had close wheel to wheel competition and passing for positions throughout the field instead of relying on fuel conservation and pit strategies to execute a pass, they would have a product that would stand out and draw fans.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Innovation and technology are great, when they solve a problem. The automobile displaced the horse and buggy because it was a vastly superior mode of transportation. The current EV push is something entirely different from that. It's much more a latteral move being pushed by a political agenda. If you can't see that, there's not much point in any further discussion.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Literally cart before the horse

Specifically what political agenda? Would the same apply to the political agenda of the fossil fuel industry?

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

I don’t see EV as being a lateral move :7:. Anybody wants one, it’s your Choice, but don’t try to flush it down my throat! Freedom of choice, not dictated. If and when racing goes electric, I hope I’m not around to witness it.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

People ain't going to sit there for 33 cars that sound lie RC cars..

It'd be like going to a Top fuel drag race and not feeling or hearing any of it, Instead of feeling like you went 15 rounds with Tyson from the power and vibration these things put out.


Im not anti EV. But banning it or mandating its replacement is purely political.. I happen to believe the future is some sort of Hydrogen/electric or Hydrogen internal combustion both which are now reality. Just technology and cost have to catch up.

If racing is to survive it will finally realize it is in the sports entertainment industry. There will always be fossil fuel uses which hopefully will include engines specific to racing. The fans will drive to the track in EV or hybrids to enjoy the unique sound of the internal combustion engine, but the writing is on the wall for the daily user of the our beloved internal combustion machines. Racing will survive but only if we change the paradigm. Just look at the growth of the Prius and Tesla. Follow the money to the long time plans of auto makers.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

If you follow the press releases for GM, it is obvious where they are going. They have stated a vision of being all electric by 2035. Will they make their target or will they have to delay is yet to be seen. However, there is no doubt that the money that GM is investing into the future of the company is for an all-electric future.

BTW, GM will be discontinuing the ICE Camaro at the end of the month.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

What about the press (it's on many sources, not just the most watched cable news network) that almost 4,000 dealers wrote a letter, that the EVs weren't selling?

I used to figure the only reason the OEMs were all into this change would be to sell another version of their product; but it appears the consumers aren't jumping into these...

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Actually I saw a race between "electric" cars. It was from IRP and it was a competition between 4 colleges to create battery powered cars. Pretty sure it was on TV as a support class to one of the USAC classes. It was very strange to hear only the squealing of tires but no motor sound. Anyone else remember this, it was probably late 90's

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Saw the same at Winchester after a Hooters Pro Cup race about that era. Your description of the sounds/lack of sounds is spot on. I think there were eight of them. They had live pit stops about half way through a 30 lapper to change out the batteries. All colleges.

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

I'm pretty certain the very 1st NBT500 I attended in 1994, offered this. We were walking in as that event occurred and I, as a 13 year-old, couldn't understand what benefit there is to using the sources of energy (in many states, coal reigns far supreme) it takes to charge a battery that is produced mining minerals out of the earth in various manners (including most likely, without OSHA controls, as well as child and slave labor); and then disposing of those same batteries in a relatively short time; and I was unable to fathom what interest this source of powerplant in a race car, would attract in any prestigious race that mattered; so I only paid so much attention. Interestingly, 29years later, I have yet to evolve on those thoughts...

Now, everyone should know, there IS at least one rear-engine open wheel class; that was developed to model this exact form of MOTOR racing; and they have done kinda well...they started off where the batteries wouldn't last the entire race, so they switched cars mid-way. It's come a long ways and they have OEM and plenty of teams and good drivers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_E (PS - I think I read somewhere - NOT on the most watched cable news network - that they sneak in fuel powered generators to charge the batteries, but I digress...)

But anyways, I would hope if they can't get OEM support and the technicalities shored up to introduce the hybrid; I sure hope they go with the spec fossil fuel format for the Indycar series - it really has done well lately; in regards to parity, close racing, and good car counts (I'm talking at the races other than the 500...which, unless they go to front engine silver crowns) I see no way will ever return to 50+ entries...there are just too many other ways to be "famous" (including Formula-E...) than just making the 500...

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

Indycar died in 1995

Re: IndyCar's Future
 

C'mon cap. EVs aren't being driven by economics and efficiency. And in the whole life cycle they aren't even better for the environment.
Auto industry is heading for another meltdown. Toyota saw it several years ago and was the first to publicly admit it. The carmakers are bleeding cash with massive capex and losses on every ev they struggle to sell.
The union saw it coming and forced the carmakers to make promises they cannot keep.
The government will borrow more money for the bailout.
And you and I will pay for it.