Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

After watching the 500, the thing that is still stuck in my mind and stopped my heart was when Kyle Kirkwood's tire went over the Turn 2 fence. Fortunately it "split the uprights" so to speak and went between the grandstand and the motel.

But had that tire been about 30-40' to the right it would have been a disaster. It was no pop fly, either. It was more of a line drive.

I can only imagine the changes that would be required to oval tracks after that. Hockey never had nets around the backs of the goal areas until a death occurred in Columbus at a Blue Jackets game. Would there be some kind of extremely high fencing added or would they go to something like you have on Interstates highways right now to prevent vehicles from crossing the median? We call them car shredders. They will work once, for the most part, but they are cheaper than armco and can be replaced easier.

Or would tracks have to re-think where seating would be? I may have to assume some risk going to a race, but we all have to learn something from this and adjust our motorsports for spectators before it pyramids into a total disaster. Fences were raised after the three deaths at MIS in the late 90s, but nothing more has become of it. Now we are back to Square 1.

The announcers never addressed the tire until later. As if it was a hot potato. Almost as if we don't talk about it it never happened. Once they realized Kirkwood was safe all attention should have been directed at the tire issue. It wasn't until much later under the red flag that it was brought up.

As for three red flags in the closing 14 laps? What a total disembowelment of a fantastic race. Sometimes you have to just "let things die" and finish under yellow. A one lap shootout finish?

My immediate concern was the tire as well, guessing they didn’t go there until they knew everything was ok, like flo does when there’s a bad crash. The wheel tethers are mandatory but must’ve failed on that one.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Loose wheel was punted up in the stands between turns 3 & 4 in 86 (?) and claimed the life of a Wisconsin fan.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

......"As for three red flags in the closing 14 laps? What a total disembowelment of a fantastic race. Sometimes you have to just "let things die" and finish under yellow......"


You are spot Mike.

The last two years have been a slap in the face to over one hundred years of tradition!

There is a crash, you go yellow. If the track is not clear on lap 200 the race is over!

This red flag BS is nothing but a NASCRAP side show.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by badcoupe:
My immediate concern was the tire as well, guessing they didn’t go there until they knew everything was ok, like flo does when there’s a bad crash. The wheel tethers are mandatory but must’ve failed on that one.

You might have something there, 'coupe.

But as for the tether, the crash was at such a high speed and with so much force - one car at flat chat side swiping a stationary car... Perhaps that will be a good place to start the investigative process. The strength of the current tethers?

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

One lap shoot-out in 1997 (yes, I know, USAC was fired after the next race)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUuCVDZMVeU

(min mark 13 really shows just the end...great sounding naturally aspirated, not leased but built at various shops engines...Many short trackers in the field...including Tony, and Steve Kinser. Always thankful for Tony George!)

Great race
I had a bunch of newbies watching it at a pool party
They loved the pageantry, tradition, speed and the finish
Kudos to Roger, team at IMS and all of IndyCar

It’s a shame IndyCar can never build momentum from the 500 because it’s awesome every year. The rest of the series looks 2nd rate in my opinion but the Indy 500 race is the pinnacle of American motorsports.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
But as for the tether, the crash was at such a high speed and with so much force - one car at flat chat side swiping a stationary car... Perhaps that will be a good place to start the investigative process. The strength of the current tethers?

Marshall Pruett covers this topic toward the end of this video.

Final Indy 500 Thoughts and Farewell with RACER's Marshall Pruett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4dXsoVvAw

https://www.wrtv.com/sports/indianap...ds-at-indy-500

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

I seen a tweet that the tire hit a car parked out between the turn two stands and the turn two suites, Nobody in it, Nobody injured.

That's a racing thing. Shearing both the axel and the tether.

What I don't get is nascar and their fifty or sixty wheels rolling around the track the last year and this. When it does happen and a fan gets kills, Not only do they have accident, But pure negligence on fixing the problem. The proper tech for the center knock off has been around half a century or more.

What percentage of that huge throng do you figure left the race with a smile on their face?

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Not sure the % but anyone that wasn't a Marcus Erickson fan or a purist who doesn't think there shoulda been any red flags unless there was a major injury or weather situation. I think the % is higher of those who don't wana see it end under yellow. I preferred it the way it was Sunday. Reminded me of the last USAC officiated race there and all the memories I had of watching that final lap shoot-out (it was on a Tuesday, and thankfully my High School gym teacher let me tune in a rabbit ear TV in the work out room. Forever thankful!). I'm happy they kept it 500 miles. Maybe they should have rules posted ahead of time when and how the reds will come out and procedures...then anyone that isn't happy with that can just not go...I'd like to think that list would be pretty small. Assume most went to enjoy the event, however it played out.

Anybody remember after the 500. The next weekend we ran the Milwaukee Mile. They were lined up waiting for the same group to arrive. The crowd and track could not be better racing.
Lynn

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by jdull99:
One lap shoot-out in 1997 (yes, I know, USAC was fired after the next race)

A bit if a difference: This year, the cars came off pit road cold. Made one lap and had the one lap to race. Back in your reference at least the cars were still out on the track rolling around and got the "one to go" from the flag stand.

Shades of an Abu Dhabi F1 style restart in which the protocol/formation is brushed off. And the other elephant in the room is that the "house team" won - Penske.

But we all have our individual opinions and viewpoints.

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You so called purists will never be happy. You got your 500 mile race while the rest of us got an awesome shoot out! No way that race should run 14 laps of caution to end. Now you want to complain about something, lets talk about 207mph race laps because everyone is saving fuel for most of the race. There were some pretty boring parts of that race.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Two topics in one:
We need to understand why the teether failed. Was this a part failure or a physics problem? At some point, the physics of the crash may be greater than any teether can with stand. If it is a part failure, we can work on the part. If it is a physic problem, the answer becomes much more difficult.

As someone else suggested, we may need to define the procedures for the end of the race. If it is decided 360+ days before the next race that a premium is going to be put on finishing under green, then everyone who buys a ticket understands the priority for the last 10 laps. If it is a decided that the last 10 laps are going to be treated like any other 10 laps, then the decision has already been made. I personally wanted to see the race end under green. I had no problems with the one lap shoot out.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by jdull99:
I'm happy they kept it 500 miles. Maybe they should have rules posted ahead of time when and how the reds will come out and procedures.

I do agree there needs to be a set protocol in the future. So all teams and fans know in advance.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Throwing the yellow again for too slow of a pace at a restart changed the whole complexion of the race. Had that start been allowed alot of things might not have happened. I'm not an Indy car purist and don't really know but has that ever happened before?

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Jonr:
Two topics in one:
We need to understand why the teether failed. Was this a part failure or a physics problem? At some point, the physics of the crash may be greater than any teether can with stand. If it is a part failure, we can work on the part. If it is a physic problem, the answer becomes much more difficult.

I am sure that there will be some forensic investigation, but from what I saw, tether was sheared in contact.

I’m ok with the last red and a one lap shoot out. I was pulling for Rossi or Ferrucci myself. Never been a big Team Penske guy but sure am glad Roger has IMS.

Catering to the purist may have cost us Kyle Kirkwood.

I lean toward personal responsibility and realizing what you’re doing and where you’re going. Broken anything can lead to sharp edges. That speed + that force+ that cutting angle may very well equal a 99.9% failure rate of any tether. If it were an anchor point that failed due to strength or engineering design, i have no doubt they’ll find it and address it.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Ericson's argument of the one lap shootout on cold tires was a bit of a stretch; don't they come out on cold tires into heavy traffic after every green flag stop? No one has ever said that was "unfair" or "too dangerous". Granted, he was a sitting duck but Newgarden would have been too had the tables been turned. Maybe he shouldn't have been in such a hurry to get the lead on the restart and held off until the backstretch, then he wouldn't have gotten into the lead and would have had the advantage after the reset. All in all, I have no argument with how the finish was handled; they did a true 500 miles and finished under green. Best of both worlds.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by jjones752:
Ericson's argument of the one lap shootout on cold tires was a bit of a stretch; don't they come out on cold tires into heavy traffic after every green flag stop? No one ha ever said that was "unfair" or "too dangerous". Granted, he was a sitting duck but Newgarden would have been too had the tables been turned. Maybe he shouldn't have been in such a hurry to get the lead on the restart and held off until the backstretch, then he wouldn't have gotten into the lead and would have had the advantage after the reset. All in all, I have no argument with how the finish was ahndled; they did a true 500 miles and finished nder green. Best of both worlds.

Ericsson was just sour because he lost.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
A bit if a difference: This year, the cars came off pit road cold. Made one lap and had the one lap to race. Back in your reference at least the cars were still out on the track rolling around and got the "one to go" from the flag stand.

Shades of an Abu Dhabi F1 style restart in which the protocol/formation is brushed off. And the other elephant in the room is that the "house team" won - Penske.

But we all have our individual opinions and viewpoints.

& winner Arie said "what the F are they doing" on National TV...Goodyear was proly gun shy after he got busted for passing the pace car two years before...plus the yellow light was on at some spots. My main point was, it was a cluster. Life went on. The 500 is the greatest spectable in racing and things happen. Heck, many think Paul Tracy won in 2001...

I don’t know which way is proper, but as as entertainment value, they made the right decision in my book. I was actually surprised they didn’t throw the red a lap earlier. Thanks be to God no one got in the way of the tire!

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Thanks for the thoughts, men. No one is completely right, and no one is completely wrong. Just nice to chat about all sides of all of the issues.

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Is it actually written in the rulebook that the race should go red near the end and not yellow? Hard to see justifying this if not. If that is the rule they want then put it in writing.

No matter how specific your rule book is there are still judgment calls to be made and they made on a wide range of dimensions from equity to entertainment value

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by DJlives:
No matter how specific your rule book is there are still judgment calls to be made and they made on a wide range of dimensions from equity to entertainment value

Not really all that specific. Either you stop the race within 10 or not. Thats why you have rules because they are specific.

Okay. Take a stab at writing that rule.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Oh no. Not getting me to write some rule that I don't agree with. I say every lap of the race should be treated the same unless otherwise stipulated.

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Originally Posted by DJlives:
Okay. Take a stab at writing that rule.

This is very simple and make several mad. Use what has worked in the short track world all my life.

The Final 10 laps of the race must be run under green flag conditions.

Great idea except 2 different theory here. For dirt or pavement 30 lap race. Indy 500 race requires so much fuel stops to go 200 laps. And so many variables to achieve this. Do I want a car full of fuel or just enough at the checker. We worry about how much the car weigh at last few laps. This is all a gamble. Ten laps at Indy can be a long time. You always roll the dice.
Lynn

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by DJlives:
Okay. Take a stab at writing that rule.

In the last 10 laps of the race, a premium is going to be put on running as many of these laps under green as possible. This will be accomplished by shorting yellow flag cautions and expanding the use of the red flag to maximize having the last ten laps run under green flag conditions. The underlying principle is that our fans want to see the last 10 laps run under green flag conditions and we will try to accommodate their wishes.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

As hard as it is to attract fans these days, the last thing you want to show them is a yellow flag parade to the checkers. They want to see two or more cars battling for the lead.

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester:
What I don't get is nascar and their fifty or sixty wheels rolling around the track the last year and this....

Not so much NASCAR, but one lug wheels: Being a diverse race fan and enjoying many different types thereof, I was watching Formula 2 from Monaco this weekend. They have gone away from compressed air driven rattle guns and now use electric rattle guns.

No hoses. No running over hoses. No hoses getting caught up under the front end of any type of car.

The face of things to come.....?

Now. Back to the 500 banter. :)

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Blackduce:
Anybody remember after the 500. The next weekend we ran the Milwaukee Mile. They were lined up waiting for the same group to arrive. The crowd and track could not be better racing.
Lynn

And we over in Southeast Michigan get to look forward to the Grand Prix in Detroit the weeked after. Been this way for years.... Very exciting!!!!

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Originally Posted by Puppy:
And we over in Southwest Michigan get to look forward to the Grand Prix in Detroit the weekend after. Been this way for years.... Very exciting!!!!

Wow. How ironic. I'm over in SW Michigan, too!

4190 South Cleveland in Stevensville. I should be here most of the day tomorrow. Feel free to stop in.

Ask for Mike. :)

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Does anyone know if Doug Boles (who runs IMS) is of the Boles dealership family that used to sponsor the Glen Niebel cars?

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike:
Not so much NASCAR, but one lug wheels: Being a diverse race fan and enjoying many different types thereof, I was watching Formula 2 from Monaco this weekend. They have gone away from compressed air driven rattle guns and now use electric rattle guns.

No hoses. No running over hoses. No hoses getting caught up under the front end of any type of car.

The face of things to come.....?

Now. Back to the 500 banter. :)

Should be the wing nut and hammer!

Re: Indianapolis 500 Thoughts (Spoilers)
 

Originally Posted by Blackduce:
Great idea except 2 different theory here. For dirt or pavement 30 lap race. Indy 500 race requires so much fuel stops to go 200 laps. And so many variables to achieve this. Do I want a car full of fuel or just enough at the checker. We worry about how much the car weigh at last few laps. This is all a gamble. Ten laps at Indy can be a long time. You always roll the dice.
Lynn

Its the same rule for every single team. You wanna gamble on 500miles of fuel, go for it. You wanna run 520 miles of fuel, have at it. As crazy as it sounds, it might even end some of that fuel saving in the beginning.

By the way don't even waste your time mentioning a dirt or pavement 30 lap races because I have seen them refuel cars under the red. I sure don't see the message boards blowing up about that. :15: