Tire Dopers
 

Grant and Stockton confirmed tire dopers.

I was told it was for the outlaw xtreme series. Either way very disappointed in both of them. Especially JG since he runs the team.

. It doesn’t matter if it’s a local show, Xtreme or USAC, cheating is cheating. From what I hear USAC is going to be announcing some penalties also.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Penalty / Fine Notice

Competitor: Justin Grant – TOPP Motorsports #4

Series: Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series

Event Location: Volusia Speedway Park, De Leon Springs, FL

Date: February 14, 2022

Event and explanation:

Tire samples were taken February 14, 2022 at Volusia Speedway Park.

A total of 1 tire was sampled (after completion of the feature event) using the accepted practice of the Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series utilizing the team provided grooving iron and sample cuts taken by crew members. Samples were logged, bagged and sealed with the signature of the represented crew member.

Specimen cuttings were sent to an independent laboratory for testing of chemically altering substances in the tires in a comparative analysis.

The test revealed the tire had been altered and did not match or conform to the benchmarks provided by Hoosier Tire Company. Additional analysis verified the initial laboratory findings.

The Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series rulebook reads as follows regarding altering tires in any way.

Section 9 Tires

Hoosier MEDIUM, or H15 are the only approved right rear tires for competition.
Teams must utilize Hoosier tires on all four corners.
Any member that attempts and/or is found to be using tires that are found to be illegal in any manner will be subject to disqualification and/or fine and/or suspension and/or loss of points and/or any other action deemed appropriate by World Racing Group Supervisory Officials.
The minimum penalty for any tire that does not meet the benchmark will be as follows:
Disqualification from the event and;
A fine up to 1,000 championship and track points and;
Return of all earned purse and/or reward money from the event and;
A fine up to equal the purse money awarded for the event with a minimum fine of $2000 and;
A minimum suspension of 1-month minimum or 4 races, up to six (6) months in duration and;
Any cost incurred for testing
The penalty including fine and suspension may include the driver, crew chief, the car
and car owner as stated in the penalty notice.
TIRE PROTESTS: Tire protests may involve any tire. The fee will be $500 ($50) per tire. The
protest will require the confiscation of the tire(s) protested. The tire(s) involved in the protest will be shipped by World Racing Group to the authorized laboratory for benchmark testing. The determination of the facility will be final and non-appealable.
Penalty / Fine:

Disqualification from the event at Volusia Speedway Park, February 14, 2022, including loss of all purse money and championship points earned in the event(s). (Purse money total $2,500.00)
$120.00 tire analysis fees.
A fine of $2000.00.
Total due including loss of money, fine and tire analysis of $4,620.00

A suspension from the next 2 Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series events for Justin Grant and the TOPP Motorsports #4.
Any subsequent violations may result in a higher fine schedule and/or additional loss of points and/or suspension (including indefinite) and/or parking of the team.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Penalty / Fine Notice

Competitor: Chase Stockon

Series: Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series

Event Location: Volusia Speedway Park, De Leon Springs, FL

Date: February 15, 2022

Event and explanation:

Tire samples were taken February 15,2022 at Volusia Speedway Park.

A total of 1 tire was sampled (after completion of the feature event) using the accepted practice of the Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series utilizing the team provided grooving iron and sample cuts taken by crew members. Samples were logged, bagged and sealed with the signature of the represented crew member.

Specimen cuttings were sent to an independent laboratory for testing of chemically altering substances in the tires in a comparative analysis.

The test revealed the tire had been altered and did not match or conform to the benchmarks provided by Hoosier Tire Company. Additional analysis verified the initial laboratory findings.

The Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series rulebook reads as follows regarding altering tires in any way.

Section 9 Tires

Hoosier MEDIUM, or H15 are the only approved right rear tires forl competition.
Teams must utilize Hoosier tires on all four corners.
Any member that attempts and/or is found to be using tires that are found to be illegal in any manner will be subject to disqualification and/or fine and/or suspension and/or loss of points and/or any other action deemed appropriate by World Racing Group Supervisory Officials.
The minimum penalty for any tire that does not meet the benchmark will be as follows:
Disqualification from the event and;
A fine up to 1,000 championship and track points and;
Return of all earned purse and/or reward money from the event and;
A fine up to equal the purse money awarded for the event with a minimum fine of $2000 and;
A minimum suspension of 1-month minimum or 4 races, up to six (6) months in duration and;
Any cost incurred for testing
The penalty including fine and suspension may include the driver, crew chief, the car
and car owner as stated in the penalty notice.
TIRE PROTESTS: Tire protests may involve any tire. The fee will be $500 ($50) per tire. The
protest will require the confiscation of the tire(s) protested. The tire(s) involved in the protest will be shipped by World Racing Group to the authorized laboratory for benchmark testing. The determination of the facility will be final and non-appealable.
Penalty / Fine:

Disqualification from the event at Volusia Speedway Park, February 15, 2022, including loss of all purse money and championship points earned in the event(s). (Purse money total $1,800.00)
$120.00 tire analysis fees.
A fine of $2000.00.
Total due including loss of money, fine and tire analysis of $3,920.00

A suspension from the next 2 Xtreme Outlaw Sprint Series events for Chase Stockon and the KO Motorsports #5s
Any subsequent violations may result in a higher fine schedule and/or additional loss of points and/or suspension (including indefinite) and/or parking of the team.

So I am curious why the suspensions are for the next two events when the series rules states the minimum suspensions for any tire violations is one month or 4 races minimum? 🤔

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Im not doubting the findings, However I think samples should be taken before a feature in the lineup shoot. Say someone dumps oil or anti freeze or brake fluid on the track and cars run thru it. IMHO that can change the compound. Wouldn't be so sure some armor all wouldn't either.

Guess they know what their doing but in the world of racing I was around, You mounted it up, grooved it and raced. if you did it at the shop sometimes you put it out in the sun to try to stretch it a bit so you could get a better more acurate stagger reading

The chances of a tire getting enough of the chemicals you named on it to fail a sample would be astronomical. They cheated, got caught now pay the price.

2 sides to every story. Oddly enough, first time racing with the new series and this happens...2 of the best guys and teams in USAC nonwing Sprints. Hopefully JG and Chase get a chance to tell their side of the story and it comes out that it was a mistake or misunderstanding one way or another by someone somewhere and it wasnt just flat out cheating on purpose. Usually cheating of any sort gives you an edge, sure didnt give them an edge did it. Couldn't have cheated too badly.

Rumors going around JG is innocent on doping the tires. He just spilled Nos on the tires.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

I'd like to solve the puzzle Pat.

Penalty says "minimum of 1 month or 4 race suspension".

Since it's not a 4 race suspension and they have 2 races scheduled in the next month ....

Everyone is quick to judge before the whole story comes out. I think some light will be shed shortly on this whole situation once USAC announces their findings. A tire shortage and supplies to make the tires has been hard to come by. I think we might find out that the chemicals to make the tires has changed as they have had to substitute things to continue producing. I'm not an expert but just what I believe could have happened. Hard telling when the sample for the labs benchmark was taken and how that tire was made.

Went all year with no tires failing in usac and all of a sudden we have all kinds of failed tire tests at the beginning of the year. I can't imagine anyone doing anything to jeopardize their whole season the first races of the year knowing that both series well be doing full tech after the races.

Like I said some of you are very quick to launch stones but the whole story has not been told it sounds like.

And word on the street is those same guys plus two other USAC racers tires failed from the Bubba’s Usac races days later and it is being pushed under the rug and hush hush to protect their guys.

What if the word is all 6 samples from Ocala failed? Would you not think there is some problem with the test or the tires? Or you just have blinders on and say hang everyone? To go from no failed test in 2021 to every year failing on the first races something seems off.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Has there not already been seven WoO races without any teams caught doping?

I don't doubt that the tires may have changed, but the Xtreme and WoO teams are both running Hoosier Tires with access to the Medium and H15.

Honestly, not surprised. What else are these guys getting away with..

Sour grapes from Sept 2020?

Sounds like nicecar and the lug nut rule, tire goes down, you slap the wall, lose that tire and wheel, then get dinged for an improper installation of the wheel, a lot in that rule I have a problem with, now it comes off leaving the pit, maybe, but this is all new stuff, would a grace period be in order, just sayin, I've been on the tech end and know not to make rules you can't prove at the track!

Exactly, cheating is cheating

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Unless you are telling where "word on the street" came from then you wasted your time typing this.

You betcha….. more to the story than you know. I’ll leave it at that.

Yep,If you knew what I know you would have sour grapes too

It doesn’t work that way. It for one month minimum, … and four races minimum. By your logic if there were no races scheduled for a month they wouldn’t be suspended at all

Come on!! Spill it so we all know!! Lol

Accusations if they cannot be verified are of little value except to damage the accused and reinforce the mindset of the accuser.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Back in the day. A lot of innocent people here in my hometown were hung only to find out later that they weren't Witches after all. But that was before the internet! :D

Looks like round 1 is going to go to the xtreme series.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

So if extreme busted these two guys who chose to run their series then they cheated what is the question to ask about how they handle their business??? If there is some speculation about another series then we need to let them explain what happened at their races if anything nefarious did occur. It would be a good idea if there was foul play to let the series in question do their due diligence. If the series fails to be true to fairness then it won’t take long for that series to fail and the other will prevail. This isn’t about two sides of a story and issues about manufacturing. It’s either you pass or you fail. Doesn’t get any more simple.

Funny that this comes up after a new series challenges the tried and true who has been in charge for years isn’t it??????? I’ll just go on and read the posts by the sanctions and make my assumptions from that.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

With out revealing your "street source", how would word get from the lab to the street?" I would think that if USAC "pushed under the rug and hush hush to protect their guys" why would they be telling people? Who would be the leak? I love these conspiracy theories, even though some are better thought out than others.

A lot of people know that 4 tires failed from usac races in florida. That information isn’t hard to find, despite usac saying nothing about it so far, other than they are awaiting results of their own further testing. I have a feeling I inow how this will end but we shall see.

Before I ask my question, I’ll begin by saying that I have no dog in this fight either way. Whether they did or they didn’t, or if something did or did not happen at the USAC race isn’t my ask here. My questions center around procedure. Can anyone explain the procedure for taking samples? I know the penalty report said the team grooved the fire after the race with their own grooving iron and that it was signed by the team representative. Is there only one piece taken for sampling or do they obtain multiple samples? Does the organization keep the spare sample (if taken) to have it tested for confirmation? How do they obtain a sample if the tire is (or is nearly) gone? Is there a minimum amount of material needed for the sample? Is there a second laboratory that the team could send a sample to (adhering to the same sampling procedure of the series) at their cost?
I’m just trying to get some additional information for my own edification.
Jake Simmons.

Jake, A series official comes and notifies the team that a tire sample is to be obtained. A team member using the teams grooving iron removes several samples from several areas as directed by the official. Each sample is about 1/2” or longer in length and about 1/8” in thickness. The samples are put in a mew container with the name of team and driver and then sealed and team member signs there name. The series sends sample to the lab they use. Results come back in a week or so. As far as USAC is concerned tire sample results are available from usac at following events. Other series are similar. Appeal processes are spelled out in series rules. I don’t know 🤷*♀️ if any individual teams keep and test their own samples independently.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

OK. That information isn't hard to find. How do I find it? I am not questioning what I have heard from either series. If the Extreme race was a week earlier, and they announced results yesterday(Friday). Wouldn't it make sense that with the USAC race being the next week, that they could possibly still be waiting for results?
I have another question, not that I expect an answer. You guys got the same penalty. Have you guys ever admitted guilt, or do you do like a teenager and say everyone else was doing it? Do you deny that you had doped tires? Or were you just being picked on? Reminds me of a guy I used to work with. No matter how many times his kid got in trouble, it was always the schools fault, or it was always the cops fault. Everyone else does it, so they have to be picking on my kid. Always an excuse. All it does is hurt the sport. doesn't help the kid either. As for your driver, I always thought he was good driver.

I think he believes that all the usac regulars do it and they did it and got caught but since they are not usac regulars they got punished. If all of them did it and usac knew it I don't think they would be wasting the time and money to test the top 3 every night who more times than not are the usac regulars. But you'll never convince him otherwise so it's a losing battle.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

Not that some members of the board have *ahem* 'bent' the rules before, but would anyone be willing to explain how a tire gets doped? My gut feeling is one is trying to make it softer. Can one dope a tire to make it harder? I know that running a heat cycle with a slick and then cooling it with water when it is hot is a method.

So, what chemicals are used for this or that? I'd like to know. Thanks.

I do not believe all USAC racers do it. I am very sure of several who never have done anything illegal with there tires. I am just as
sure there are those who have, and have been at times. A prominent usac crew chief told and showed me three years ago how to identify a doped tire visually, and what visual evidence was on a tire or removed from a tire to prevent visual detection. Initially skeptical I studied tires for a long time and was able to determine what I had been told was true. Based on that AND many conversations that I will not share with whom, I know who has. I also know who has prepped tires for some names people wouldn’t expect. One other fact I would add is usac does NOT test the top three every night. In regards to the timing of test results the florida results been known for some time now, but only crickets are heard. All anyone wants is a level playing field and a consistent application of the rules, and I am in that camp.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

But do you have proof from Ocala? If so, you could probably file a lawsuit. Since you tend to use a message board to wage your battle, I wonder if it is not just sour grapes. I know that when I helped my buddy with a kart, everyone cheated, even us. I don't think it would be smart for a sanctioning body to overlook failed tests. In the long run that would have a very negative effect on their product as far as attracting cars and dates. After all in every series the tracks pay the purses. I take it you were guilty of the infraction as you have never offered to explain your innocence, only to slander the people who caught you.
I got pulled over one time, told the cop I was only running with traffic, everyone was speeding. He said maybe, but I pulled over you. He was right, and I paid the fine.
I have not seen either of the 2 teams that were penalized last week complaining that everyone else was doing and making accusations about the sanctioning body on social media. If they have, I haven't seen it. I hope they don't it. Just makes things worse for them.

Re: Tire Dopers
 

“If you ain't trying to cheat a little, you ain't likely to win much.”

The King, FWIW.

May have been that erratic turn as well Mr. Funk??? Hahahahaha

We've heard from one sanctioning body. My guess is we will hear from the other this week as they did run a few days after the other series.
I have to wonder with KO being a 2car team, would one crew be doping and the other not? They are run out of the same stable so to speak. Not accusing, just pointing out that one car of a two car team has been flagged.

Brent, Sorry I hadn’t answered this yet. I can confirm the tire failed and it was our fault, that is the short answer. No excuses made. Not to take anything aesy from that fact, I can also confirm only one tire was tested after that race that night,,,,,, not 2, 3, 4 or any other number. I also know if multiple cars tires had been tested the results would have been surprising. The long and short is got busted deservedly, faced the consequences, move on in best way possible. I don’t know if JG or Stockon or others had dirty tires in florida or not but I do know they tested illegal. Was it from some manufacturing error or testing error? I do not know. All I asked originally was why WRG rules state those that fail tire tests get a minimum one month and minimum 4 race suspension and I asked why they get two races only? 🤷*♂️. I have attempted to be 100% truthful in all that I have posted on this topic. Not looking for an argument. Have a great day sir. On to chasing 🏁🏁