Mike’s Elephant
 

My friend Stevensville Mike brought up the elephant in the room on another thread pertaining to the question of if streaming of races keeps fans away. I’m pretty sure there are cases to be made for both sides of the argument. I would like to hear from all of you and your thoughts on the matter. One thing that occurred to me today, that I hadn’t thought about before is the affect streaming has on attracting sponsors. I often hear teams talk about how their sponsors can watch but can stay home and tend to business. Another thought I came up with, and I’ll use NOS as a random example. Do you think NOS would be involved if they had to rely on the exposure they get from ticket buyers only? Certainly something to think about. Looking forward to what my bud Mike has to say as well as the rest of you

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I have had Floracing for a little over a year. I have attended about the same number of races as usual. My wife says that I spend marginally more on her than my $150 annual expenditure for my girlfriend Flo. Both are worth every penny.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I have Floracing and go to, the same amoiunt as before. I only watch races I can't get to. I still think it hurts attendance cheap people will stay home. I know after watching there are more tracks I won't go to. Poorly run programs that take to long. I see people on facebook saying they are having watch parties for big shows. If they have 6 people at one that's a lot of lost income for a track.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I think FLO is good for the people who don't have the time to travel to races very far from them. Watching races on FLO is not as good as being there. I do think the local race tracks with good races are gaining people. What I do see on FLO is poorly ran shows by the promoters.
As it is now NASCAR races are boring and most sprint car racing is not which has opened the NASCAR watchers eyes and helped fill the seats at the local tracks.

There’s no evidence that streaming hurts attendance. In fact, many series are experiencing an uptick in attendance because more eyes can follow the series on a regular basis and are more likely to come out to the track when it’s in their area. I’m sure there are times when diehards stay home because of this reason or that to watch online, but that is more than offset by new fans that come out to the track because they saw it on Flo or DV.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

We know the tracks are getting paid by Flo to stream their races. We don't know how much. It's doubtful it is equal to a ticket price for each person watching. So could you claim that is lost income? Sure you could. But how many people (that paid Flo, that Flo is paying the track) watching on Flo would be there if it weren't for Flo? in the big picture, I'd say very few. People watch online all over the world. Realistically, most ordinary fans aren't traveling real far to go to a race. Die hards don't count. I've watched races all over the US and even other continents on Flo. So me paying Flo to pay the track so I could watch has actually increased the track's income. Without Flo, the track with get nothing from me. So far, I've missed exactly zero races in person that were close enough and practical for me to attend. Furthermore, I've now seen tracks that I never would have seen before, and as a result, planning vacations to see races at some of these tracks. I'd also say in the end, that will increase the track's income. One good litmus test of is Flo beneficial, is this year's Front Row Challenge. Terry always said no way would he ever allow streaming of his event because it would hurt ticket sales. Until this year.... Must not be all bad.

And I've known Mike a few years. He's not really an elephant.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

What DSC said. In gerneral I find attendance up since streaming became common.

Real elephants, covid, There are still many that are still playing it safe and this is not a young crowd. Also some travel restrictions, Know a few from outside US haven't been able to make a US race in two seasons now.

After midget week, sprint week, knoxville, kings royal. dreams only so many four day trips people can afford or get off to go to. The ticket price is trivial.

Lack of weekly racing and fans, Quite honestly I think the Hornets or mods bring in as many fans as the sprints for weekly shows. Yeah this is sprint and midget events but you don't have those fans And I don't care what anyone says, At least fifty percent of a tracks fans at most shows are somewhat local.

Also seen many times at multi night shows some stay out and party they're having so much fun. Not sure how many, but it happens. Know quite a few they take the wife and go to the race themself but the wife stays at the camper, racing's not her thing, but she enjoys camping and friends.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

Nothing beats being at a track live. I will say that I've added a few tracks to my "I want to go there list" from watching racing online.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

In today's modern society, would people be tempted to go to any event if it wasn't broadcasted?

Would people flock to the Indy 500 today if it HADN'T been televised say, at least the last 10 years? (And that's for free!)

Would the same be applied to other events like high school sports that has a huge streaming fan base?

Streaming is the best thing that has come along to auto racing in a long time in terms of exposure the broadest possible audience (and record keeping of events).

I imagine a day where the streaming becomes more interactive between the drivers, announcers and the fans at home. Imagine being able to send a tip to your favorite driver or donate to a helmet pass live on air all while at home or on your phone.

The surface has only just been scratched for the potential...

Here's my issue with streaming services. They set up shop on "prime" high level seating taking away from customers who actually paid to be at the facility that day. They usually have 2-3 of the top rows blocked off for their cameras.

Jeremy

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

When I first posted my thoughts on this on the Smackdown thread, It took me a little while to get my head around is. By the way, flagboy, good move making this its own thread. :6:

Flo is its own company. They air many different things, usually all related to sports. So the only interest they have in motorsports is to make money for themselves. They are not owned by a group of midwestern tracks owners or promoters.

My Flo subscription was ~$50? I honestly cannot remember the exact price, but for the sake of argument, let's says that is money for three race nights for me - tickets. I have more than gotten my money back from Flo for this service. I am now much more apt to watch something on Flo when I am tired, pressed for time, etc., than go on a four hour round trip drive to a race. The latter half of that drive coming home at night. Nothing new. I have done this for decades.

But with this new Flo dynamic in my life, it has distracted me from attending the events live. And I am your average dirt track sprint car fan. A litmus test, so to speak. A larger comparison of things is how many kids play board games anymore? Or cards? Video and computers have knocked out that old way of living. Ten years from now, where will your crowd be, how big will it be, and who will actually BE the crowd? I am not talking about the Knoxville Nationals, or Kings Royal, but your weekly crowd at your weekly track.

The one thing I think will happen, though, is as Flo and others become more popular, the price will start slowly ratcheting up. They will be able to ask this of people and probably get it - to an extent.

In the early 00s, I want to say/remember Emmett Hahn not wanting to air the Chili Bowl live for he wanted the fan base at the track. This was when it was on SPEED TV. Then it did not air for a few years, but came up as PPV in 2007. $24 on HBO. Now that is 24 2007 dollars. Flo is like.... $50 for the year. So Flo is a true deal. All people like deals. But the Chili Bowl can get by airing live (on MAV-TV) for that event is self sustaining, like the Nationals or the Kings Royal.

So for now, I think this is going to start trickling down into Flo's coffers as more and more fans sign up and start slowly putting away their "board games" and get out the "video games".

Enough of me for now. Back to masses of the forum. :D

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I am a bit different in that while I am a fan, I am also at an event to shoot. Other than the Indy 500, I don't know of a race, local or otherwise, that I have attended just to watch in over 14 years. I also am not a real big fan of watching racing on TV, and I avoided getting Flo until this year. Some know that I am a huge rugby fan, and I used to subscribe to a web streaming service that provided rugby coverage. It was purchased by Flo a few years back, and I didn't renew the subscription because there was very little content. Well, this year, Flo stepped up their rugby game, and I get both rugby and racing for the same dollar. Great deal, to be honest. This year, I also have found out who is involved with Flo racing, and they are folks that I have known for some time, even from the production level, and overall, I am pretty happy with the coverage. For me, the benchmark will always be the ESPN "Thunder" shows of the 90s, and I don't know if that standard will ever be reached. That said, from what I have been watching on Flo for the past few months has more than proven to be worth the money, and that is both for rugby (they stream Sky Sports and other broadcast feeds, and not their own) and racing. One point that was brought up by the original post, and I have not seen addressed in any comments is SPONSOR EXPOSURE. We can argue all day long about how streaming might have an effect on attendance, but I feel that there is little argument that for a series and race car sponsor, getting exposure via the stream is invaluable.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

Flo is 150.00 a year, Something Im willing to pay for the content given. I can't justify the 300 that dirtvision charges and that doesn't include a couple of events.

Also had and have LUCAS/Mav. Haven't purchased anything else.

I got to the track every time I can now and it's not even close streaming as what it is to live. Some broadcast are better than others with more cams. And seeing a battle for second or third coming to the checker on a stream is rare unless the winner had a huge lead or the camera is towards turn one.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I go to a lot of big shows. I have never seen a ppv take up more then a handful of seats.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I spend from 4 to 6 thousand dollars a year going to mostly USAC races. Motels, fuel, etc. I dont have Flo but I do have IOW

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I went to the BC39 - as always - I was thinking that if people were watching on Flo they were greatly impressed - the crowd was roaring and you can't get that feeling on Flo - my vote would go to Flo helping spread the word and making more fans - I didn't go to Kokomo this year, which we usually do, but the crowded mess and poor seating there ( we usually go to one race during the Smackdown) made it a Flo race for me.

I like flo because I can watch a little bit of everything on there as a motor sports fan of many disciplines. I rarely ever turn on a tv but many nights I’ll see what’s on flo and watch something be it from down under or some local stock car track I’ve never heard of. But we still race in person and attend some other events. I don’t think it keeps me from attending any races but adds some entertainment at times when I have nothing else interesting to read or do.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I definitely don't go to any less races. If anything, I'm more racing addicted than I previously was. There's certainly more wings on my racing diet than there used to be. More Late Models, too. And in the last two years, streaming has allowed me to be witness of the two Kyle Larson multi-racing division nationwide barnstorming tours.

So, now, not only am I at the races, but during the lulls, I am streaming Flo, Dirtvision, MavTV Plus, Lucas Oil TV or whatever and watching that action. And then, when I get home from the track, it's time for USAC/CRA, NARC, King of California, ect.

Jerry

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

Yup, Come home from the local show or even sometimes further and able to catch the feature of a USAC/CRA race. Watch the Heats and Races at Port. Not a wing fan but watching Macri is a joy. GASSER..

Really not liking All Stars at all. Shows are drawn out and on crappy tracks way more than not. Think the format fits bigger car counts better than USACs but the redraw and dashes take a hour, A hour that should be cut.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

That is why I stream, and don't always watch the shows live.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

We were going to run Putnamville earlier this year and it rained out when we were half way there. No time to go anywhere else so we ordered a pizza, picked it up on the way home, and ended up watching 7-8 different sprint car races from all over the country. It really opens a big window of opportunity to gain exposure to places out of your region. Sure there are some slight downfalls but I would say the benefits outweigh them. It would be interesting to see the data of who and where they are from is at a race track that streams on any given night. Obviously, you get a lot of people from out of town at big shows but the smaller shows would show the possible difference. Someone should try to build a survey that gets you a free drink or something at a racetrack to show how you heard about the place I bet the numbers would be eye opening. I also think over the last year or so Covid has helped racing in some ways. The big way is it became the single source of entertainment for a period of time in 2020. The crowds and some select races were by far noticeably larger than in previous years.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

That would be me... 4-5 hours from the nearest GOOD sprint car racing, so its very useful. The other thing for me is taking care of 98 yr. old Mom. I was gone for 2 weeks the summer before COVID & she fell & broke her arm, so now I'm afraid to leave as often or as long. I've been to 6 races this summer, hope to go to a LOT more once that responsibility is over. Live is MUCH better! :41::

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

Totally agree about poorly run programs. However, on the flip side of the coin, I have seen a couple of tracks which I now want to attend because of what I saw on Flo. I wonder if it might just even out. Hopefully, (the eternal optimist in me says) a poorly run program might even see how it looks and try to improve. Just my opinion, I might be wrong.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

I go to the local tracks on Fridays and Saturdays but watching or FLO is fine for the rest of the week. As the local tracks will start shutting down for the season FLO will be showing races I can watch for the rest of the year. I watched FLO last night (Thursday) with mods and late models at Farmer City both were good races.

Re: Mike’s Elephant
 

Well, I am a car owner and also am involved with a few other teams and would say that I attend less races because of FLO and Ditvision. I enjoy the part where I save a few hours driving time, gas and tolls, not having to wash my car in the morning and getting to bed at 1:30 a.m.......I do go once in a while to stay in touch with my friends.....but when the checkered flag drops.....click and I'm home, clean, and ready for bed...........as a bonus, I am 10 steps from a clean restroom.

Maybe we cheap people would go, if in our advanced years it was easier to access the race track, I once did it with the aid of a small 4 wheeler, but that's become a problem also.