Smaller Wings
 

I know we aren't really supposed to talk about those full throttle, dirty air causing, parade, sorry excuse of a sprint cars here; but I wanted the thoughts of the non-wing minded crowd that sometimes tolerates a winged race or two.

What would you guys think if WoO and All*Stars came together and announced they were going to move to smaller wing. Not drastically smaller, so that it hopefully doesn't look goofy, but say: 1 inch narrower & 3 inches shorter center foil; an inch shorter wicker bill; and inch and a half shorter side boards to take some of the down-force out of the cars and get them lifting on more tracks earlier in the night. Hopefully, but no guaranteeing that the trailing wake isn't as bad and allows them to run closer, particularly in heat races.

Would you be interested if they went that direction, would you pay more attention to the wing cars at least at first to see how it looked, would you not care at all and still only tolerate them, or do you want them just left alone?

Aero, is the one common thing that is hurting ALL of auto racing. Even in the non-wings at the fast tracks, clean air means something according to the drivers. Fortunately non-wing is the least effected by the nature of the cars and good rule enforcement. But everyone else, it's just a matter of if the major sanctioning bodies are doing anything about it to minimize the pain or not.

Re: Smaller Wings
 

Invent a passing mechanism.

Non wing fan here could care less what the wing set do wish nonwing racing would pay more there paying purses like it's the 1970 or 80s it's 2019 need to increase purses that goes usac as well as the local level

If you Have to run wings, I think they should use the super sportsman model of PA. Narrow top wing no nose wing!

Re: Smaller Wings
 

Originally Posted by oppweld:
If you Have to run wings, I think they should use the super sportsman model of PA. Narrow top wing no nose wing!

Dont forget No Power steering either....

Re: Smaller Wings
 

The 305's was like that at Fremont & Attica when they 1st started

SOD in MI gave everyone what people have been saying for years, narrow the tires. So they went to 13” RR (Medium compound) and 11” LR to even out the expensive motors. There has not been one other 410 or 360 group (winged or non-winged) give the tires a try. They are even cheaper. It would not surprise me to see SOD give up on the experiment next year since there is new ownership. Tires would have been a better option than wings.

Re: Smaller Wings
 

I love big wings and I cannot lie.

Actually the bigger the better. Used to love it when they had the run what ya bring and these guys had those multiple ginormous wings. Loved that. That being said, I’ll take a tradition non winger ANY day.

Originally Posted by Rpracing1:
I love big wings and I cannot lie.

Actually the bigger the better. Used to love it when they had the run what ya bring and these guys had those multiple ginormous wings. Loved that. That being said, I’ll take a tradition non winger ANY day.

There is a picture of Doug Wolfgang in a winged car in the 1970’s that had a wing on it so big he said he had a hard time passing cars because he thought it might hit them. It was something like two feet bigger each way or something ridiculous. I doubt winged cars will ever get away from the 5’x5’ wing myself.

Re: Smaller Wings
 

URC also used to run a 15 ft wing like the Super Sportsman do today.

I agree with a previous poster in look at tires. Finding a size combination that works not just in terms of circumference but even how wide the rears are.

Think of it like comparing the tires of Super Stocks to Late Models. Big difference for essentially the same car. Don't matter how much motor you got if that small tire can't hook it all up. JMO

Re: Smaller Wings
 

Be easier just to take them off

brsteg,

i’m one of those “one or two wing races now and again” non wing fans. If it helps make the cars racier on more tracks, it’s worth a shot.

The trouble though IMHO is that the improvement will need to be significant and sustained to overcome the deeply established reputation of limited passing that seems to follow wing racing (pun intended) before most non wing fans will notice or care. myself included if being honest.

Re: Smaller Wings
 

Based on the current use of wings on Sprint cars and NEMA midgets; I doubt that any have ever been in a wind tunnel or have any religion to a known profile performance of the airfoil. Most are, at best, a guess or doing what "feels better than the other way". Prove me wrong, but I believe that Bobby Cicconi won Rookie of the year driving a blacktop car with a cast iron Chevy II that was probably down about 50HP compared to the Sesco Edmunds that he passed on the way...With a real air foil on stilts out over the engine back in the '70's. That was when EVERYBODY was running them over the cage or even further back. Playing with the size of wings is just spending more time and money chasing a ghost. So run them or leave them home....or maybe just run side boards with nothing in the middle to slow you down!

If you are wanting to change the size of the wings to possibly attract more NW fans it's not gonna happen. And those that prefer wings think they are fine. Having said that I don't know if the flat wing mandate did more harm than good. The flat wings get stood up more possibly causing more turbulence for the car following.
And at the risk of causing a **** storm here is an observation.
Generally speaking at wing races either local or touring series both driver and owner/crew have many years/decades of experience. I'm not even sure money can overcome experience. With that experience comes track & car set up savvy that makes the car fast and if they're all fast it's hard to pass. Someone commented about the smackdown finale saying the Boss race was better than the usac race because the winner came from 14th vs the front row for usac. It's the same situation. All of the usac cars/drivers are good with plenty of experience making it hard to pass them. And the Boss winner had ran there all week giving him experience to get dialed in.

Re: Smaller Wings
 

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/pic...?dl=1567787148 I.T.S.B.S. It's the Side Boards Stupid :)

Re: Smaller Wings
 

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/pic...?dl=1522290867 With Out Side Board>>>>>Which front tire is off the ground???

The Wings have been 25 square feet for years. We took away dished Wings, so there is less down force. As someone who has driven & watched Winged & Non-Wing racing for many years, just leave them, alone!
I've seen many great Winged & Non-Wing races over the years & seen terrible races & drove in them, too!
It all boils down to Track Conditions!! As far as Dirt Sprint Cars!! Pavement, I've seen great Winged Racing at Toledo, Winchester, Anderson, & the list goes on! I've seen plenty of great Non-Wing pavement racing all over, too!