What's with the panels?
 

I watched the USAC Sprint Car show from Vegas. Really great media coverage with the video. BUT...... Somebody help me out. Halloween came early I think. Were those actually USAC Sprint Cars or East Coast modifieds? I'm terribly confused. :11:

Re: What's with the panels?
 

i told usac about this years ago and said it will get out of hand! Just think about this? A car on fire laying on is side along the wall how are you going to get him out?????????? They had to cut the cage off to get alex out at vegas!:15::14:

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Seriously, a few of those Vegas modifieds....er... sprint cars looked just like an old 50's jalopy going down the backstretch there. How stupid looking and way over the edge.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Put another way,
From the fans in the stands, Are there monkeys in there doing the driving or are they remotely controled??? Is that where we are headed??? :(
Sad but you should be able to see what the drivers are doing, If You are in the infield it is a lot better picture of the drivers as the side panels are a lot lower. Pretty soon We may be watching a lot of foreign drivers and not even know it?:18:
aXe

Re: What's with the panels?
 

These panels are just another example of bad race organization management and listening to the wrong people with no regard for the fans. Just a small part of why open wheel racing has to fight for the buck of every fan. Let's put it this way: How many fans do you suppose called, wrote, e-mailed all the racing orgs that allow these rediculous panels and requested them???? I think the answer is zero. Open wheel racing is also open cockpit racing until management started bowing to the wrong crowd that wanted this s$%T.

I can see the sunvisor to block out the sun but even that has gotten carried away. USAC allows a 5 inch visor which is reasonable but several other midget orgs allow larger ones which are way beyond reasonable. USAC does not allow most panels on the midgets and silver crown cars but the panels are legal for POWRi, Badger and ARDC. Why???

Here is the inside story on the panels. Somewhere down the line a race team or teams spent some big bucks $$$$$$$$$$$ and did some testing as to the effectiveness of these panels. What did they find after spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$??

They found that the more area that is paneled, the faster the race car goes, bottomline. So more expense and rules that never should have been passed. Just another example of very, very poor management.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Were the panels adotped for safety to keep arms from protruding outside the cage when they hit a wall?

Re: What's with the panels?
 

no they have arm restraints

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Re: What's with the panels?
 

Progress does not always equal progression

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Are you guys talking about the left side arm panel that encloses the cockpit. I remember Sammy Swindell running this in his Channellock days.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Rollbar: Definitely safety
Cages: Again safety
Seatbelts: Obviously safety
Cell phones: Obvious improvement of communication but phones haven't basically changed since Alexander Graham Bell.
Microwaves: Improvement, speed in cooking

Cage panels on sprint cars and midgets: ?????????????????????????????

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I know they have arm restraints but those don't always prevent an arm leaving the confines of the cockpit.

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Re: What's with the panels?
 

Yes, I understand your point, but I haven't read one post on here EVER from a FAN, and I say FAN because they are the observers and paying customers, who likes these panels. If you can find one, please post it. If you're a business man and no one likes your product, you won't be in business very long. Once again, would the fans come forward, please, who wanted these panels??? If there aren't any, then the midget and sprint organizations made a bad decision in the first place and proves my point about the total disregard for what the fans like and don't like. Maybe this is the basis for why open wheel racing is in trouble. Is it standing room only at your local or national track?? If not, why not?? Just one small piece of the problem. Do the racing organizations actually understand what the fans want??? Are they busting down the gates to see these panels??

Re: What's with the panels?
 

So, Don Moore likes the job that USAC is doing in the midgets over POWRi, Badger and ADRC. I knew that you would eventually see the errors of your ways. Don, I would like to welcome you to the greatness of USAC.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

2 things! Don't flip and hang on to the wheel!:6:

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They do look like a 70's ioo" wheelbase super or a west coast super like edmunds built! There is no need for them!!!! More money and gee more weight!:7:

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I'm 100% behind the United States Auto Club regarding what they are doing regarding the problems facing midget racing. It's been a long time coming and an about face for Kevin Miller from where he was at the beginning of his reign.

1. The 1050 lb weight rule. A great move.

2. Addressing engine costs. Again a great move. From what I heard on the interview with D.O., he would like to bring the engine costs down to something around $12,000 with more longevity and bring purses in line with the costs of operating a midget team. Well, hurray again.

Now.. the third part of the puzzle has not been addressed and that is tires. Not happy about that but maybe he'll surprise us and come up with something that's earth shaking.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I don't like all the panel work. If I wanted to see dirt track late models, that's what I'd go see. It isn't a safety issue, it is a MONEY issue. The more advertising space you have, the more product you can advertise. I just hope it works, because once you start turning off fans, it is hard to get them back. Ask Nascrap with their cookie cutters. I could have thrown a grenade in the stands last week at Cali, and not hurt anyone.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

As for arm restraints not always keeping arms in the car, if they were worn properly they would I believe that they are to be worn below the elbow which in teh situation of a flip would hold the arms in the car. On custom driving suits when arm restraints are made in, they are put between the wrist and elbow so why do guys even where them if they where them above the elbow, doesnt do much good keeping the arms in does it???

Re: What's with the panels?
 

we had 8" wide wheels and it should be today! Noe there more rubber on a midget then 1960's sprint cars!

Re: What's with the panels?
 

If everyone wants to cry about sprint cars, from trivial things like body panels people have on their cars, to tires, to adjustable shocks, why do they go to the race track? It is not 1950, horsepower to tire size the ratio today is probably the same as it was then. The tires are roughly the same size as they were 15 years ago and the motors are way better now, so by the way you guys look at things the cars were more hooked up then they are now concerning tires. Actually they are now less hooked up with tires because now there is a tire rule for a narrower, harder RR. But you guys probably complained then too. Who cares what panels are on the cars, how does that affect the racing? It is just something to complain about.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Dustbowl, tires my be roughly the same size, but the compounds are a lot different then 15 years ago. With the bricks they ran in the 50's , the horsepower was still greater than the tire could use. Now it matches.

As for the fans, the body work does make a differance. If you chase them off, they'll find something else to do.They call it open cockpit racing for a reason, unfortunately that reason seems to be disappearing.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I can honestly say that Im not a fan of the high sides rear pannels and dished out hoods that provide downforce. Really. Openwheel to me is about seeing elbows flying, A head thru the front.

Remember and seeing the older cars with the windshields and grills is awesome, Remembering Besecker and his clear sidewall car. Matt Westfall in the old
Vogler midget at Ft. Wayne They do bring a added NEATNESS to the sport.

Off High Horse.

Still, If the actions good, Just like a Late Model. I tend to forget all that as the races are going on............

YMMV.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

does someone have a picture of what we are talking about?

Re: What's with the panels?
 

HOFFMAN SPRINT CAR!:5::5::6:
http://www.hoffmanautoracing.com/



Joe

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I gurantee the panels make ZERO difference in lap times in a non wing sprint car. This is not nascar they are not going 210 mph. Especially on ANY quarter mile. And the compounds are not much different, if any, from years ago. I will just say this, just going by my memory. 6 years ago any right rear that most teams ran were considerably softer than a DT3 on a normal basis. Easily. The DTR is a brick. People generally run a D10, RD 12, or a D12 hoosier LR now and those very well existed at least then and then I am almost sure prior to that.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

your right the cars are ugly all look a like they flip more cars in a night then we did in a year! What good is all this panels on the car? You think it makes them like good or what?:14::15::7:

---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

***? You are all wrong!:42::

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

:6:gary bettenhausen new that 35 year ago!:6:

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Sponsers like to see cool paint and bodywork and more square footage for their advertising. That is what these body panels are all about....like em or lump em......

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Lets put a little wing on top then, one of those San Jose wings, Texas 360 wing.

http://www.garypattersonracing.com/images/gp37.jpg

I guess they call them Aussie Wings.

That was the Tiner car Down Under with the Great GP.

Next stop! http://www.garypattersonracing.com/images/gp39.jpg


Joe

Re: What's with the panels?
 

I'm trying to figure out how a sponsor can advertise effectively on the body panels around the cage. Must be a strange way of advertising. If I were a sponsor, I don't think the cage panels and the way they are configured would be the place I would want my business advertised. Can anyone tell us who these sponsors are that are willing to buy advertising on these odd shaped cage panels? I'm seeing 6 inches here and 6 inches there with the panels configured in a boomerang shape. Idk... maybe the fans will need to bring high powered binoculars to see these sponsors on the cage panels. I'm usually pelted with dust, dirt, mud clods and "what have you" when I'm sitting in the stands watching a sprint car race. Trying to avoid all that doesn't leave me much time to look for a sponsor on the cage panels.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

If no one wants to see the panels and they want to see the drivers; how do we explain the success of the WoO,Dirt Late Models and NASCAR?

Side panels do help the speed.

Me personally; I'd love to see them without the cages and what not, but that will never happen just like the Pony Express probably won't be stopping by any of our houses anytime soon.

Instead of being so concerned with what we had, we need to appreciate what we have. With all of the negative talk and fits of rage over this and that, there is alot of good stories going on in the sport right now and some damn fine racing.

1050 Weight rule with driver is a joke. It's like saying that since I gave you change for a five and now you have 5 one dollar bills, you have more money. Besides; It isn't like there are just a slew of guys who weigh two hundred plus pounds who were just waiting for them to change the weight limit. Those guys don't typically fit well in a midget.

As USAC is finding out in their rev tests out west, the midget rev deal may not be as easy to set guidlines for as they think.

I'll leave you with one question; If someone set up shop in China or India and started building sprint and midget motors for around $12,000 to $15,000 and a series adopted them as their engine of choice; would you quit owning a car or watching the sport? After all; It would be more affordable and better for the consumer and the fans would have more teams to root for.(As the theory goes) Whats it matter how we get there; as long as we are there? Don't think that isn't an option on a table somewhere.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

what protection do they provide???? Tell me expert!:20::15::14:they use to look like a sprint cars!

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ok i have found one! Horse racing they have not changed in a long long time! You get way off subject now your taking midgets who cares its over!:42::

Re: What's with the panels?
 

If their arms come out of the cage then they don't have them on correctly.

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Just when "brand identity" and the joys of traditional 410 sprints starts to take hold some folks want to start "Sprouting Winglets".... Just a lowley fan point of view and don't worry we'll be there when the green drops supporting our racing addiction, winglets or not. Wishing you one hell'va racing season.

Next Generation
 

Behold, the next generation midget / non wing sprint.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL72.../383490448.jpg

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Sorry there Donnybrook, we can't share all of our secrets with you and your stable of cars............:15:

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Outside of one fan from down under, I'm still waiting on the overwelming demand for the panels. Can someone name one fan who wanted the panels added to sprint cars here in the Midwest? So far the "yeahs" haven't come forward both in history and currently. I have two points to mention here. USAC/Indiana style sprint racing has been around a long time and the cars traditionally have had open cockpits without the panels until recent times. So I'm talking tradition, preserving a tradition that is not being demanded to change by sprint car fans. I'm not hearing it on here that the fans like the panels. It doesn't matter what I think. The fans have spoken that the panels are something they don't want to see in the sport for USAC/Indiana style spring car racing. And I really don't care about the other series that you mentioned. It doesn't apply to this series. They have no tradition of open cockpit racing without panels.

The fan is still the most important entity in racing and what they want to see has been sadly put on the back burner in place of big business and money. Let's return the sport to a fan friendly sport, not a corporate driven sport.

Ford Motor Company has finally realized that they must build cars that people like and want to buy and their "new found discovery" is paying off big time. They have finally realized that they must listen to the buyers if they want to survive, again sadly lacking in the racing sport.

And now regarding the weight rule for midgets. I have already talked to two midget teams who have been sitting on the sidelines that think this rule is something that will motivate them to go racing again. That's at least two teams that weren't actively participating before the rule change. I'm sure there are more out there.

And would someone care to elaborate on the "rev testing" going on in the West??? I didn't know that was happening.

Re: What's with the panels?
 

Don,

I am having a hard time believing this weight rule is going to change anything.

The old rule stated the car had to weight 900lbs without the driver. Races are obviously not won/lost in the pit area like NASCRAP so "most" cars ontrack were 1025-1050 anyways. The new rule has done nothing but forced the heavier drivers to spend more money to make the cars even lighter to be meet the 1050 rule.

BTW, The UMARA rule for this year is 1075lbs with the driver, now we're getting somewhere. A 200lbs driver can typically lose 25lbs to be at the limit. I am also going to suggest a 2 tire per night rule and double file restarts.


Jim Anderson

Re: What's with the panels?
 

your right i dont go! Along with 2000 more that don't care about it anymore!:24::15::14::7:

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*** are you taking about???? Do you know what a sprint car looks like????:15::14::11;:11: