Why wings for 305 class?
 

This is not to bash wings, just a question. Why choose to run the 305's with wings? Let's say a set of wings costs roughly $1,000. Now you have to have two sets because you can get involved in a crash and not tear up much more than the wing. So now it's $2,000 for wings, because the guys pitted next to you will have them. So if you run for points gotta have it! Then there is the cost to replace/repair said wings. Now lets factor in that a 5'x5' top wing produces roughly 2,000 lbs of down force at 100mph. Now you must pull all that force around the track with your little 'ol 305ci engine. So instead of getting maybe 30-40 shows between rebuilds it's now 15-20. Plus add in that on those 15-20 race rebuilds more componets are wore out therefore more hard earned money is spent to make it fast again. Am I the only one who has though of this? This is Indiana and fans are more fond of Sprint cars vs. winged Sprint cars. Now also consider that wing cars need a relatively smooth surface to compete on to put on good racing for the paying fans. So which class must comprimise on track condidtions? The Sprint cars race on slick and smooth track or the Wings run on somewhat rough and tacky track?

Bob

I think they did it for safety concerns. Also, many 305 teams had been buying used 410/360 wings here in the east. Your downforce calcs are probably off because I don't believe they can run more than a 10-degree pitch.

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

Racer

I think safety is a big factor in favor of wings. I have always called them my crush proof box. I would like to see someone design a box that would mount to the top of a wingless car to do the same thing.

The other reason I can see is rookie drivers, in wings it is the sideboards more so than the air foil that help these drivers out, we call it leaning on the sideboards. Heck a winged 305 could be just as fast with no attack angle in the wing.

Brand Identity, They wings will help fans identify the 305 class from the premier 410 CI class, and with the aid of the wings will get their speeds up close to that of the 410s.

The interesting thing to do would be clock the 305s time between the turns (1 and 2 or 3 and 4 ) and then clock the 410s time spent in the turns, thereby hangs the tail.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

It's not supposed to be safe! If it was safe everyone would do it. I'm talking dollars and sense. Missing my point, you can run 410 Sprint cars for the same cost as these 305's. why mot choose the cheaper version of the 305's?

Bob

I brought it up twice.
The 2nd time , I learned my lesson.

I really feel that if they are going to do it, there has to be a distinguishing factor between the 305's and the 410' for casual fans sake. It just doesn't make sense to have two classes of cars that look identical running the same night. Something to think about though for anyone interested in running a 305 though would be to try and talk to another track that didn't run on a fri night to set up a non wing class so you could perhaps get more use out of a car. Maybe paragon would start a class just for that etc.

Paragon wouldn't because you can just take your wing off and run your 305 with the rest of the field.

I get that JT, was just trying to make an example.

Are you serious? So lets add $2,000 worth of aluminum so that the fans can tell the difference? That is the job of the announcers. Do some research and look up how many tracks run 2 or EVEN 3 classes of winged Sprint cars weekly. Still waiting for a logical reason why choose wings smack dab in the middle of wingless land. It makes absolutely no sense to me to do this.



Bob

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

Any 305 Drivers/owners wanting to run non wing could just go to Paragon anyway,
Every car runs a feature and if you are not in the top 5 you are basically, running for the same payout, When Waynesfield started running non winged sprints several of their regulars were 305's, some of which run up front, ask Doug Heck, who runs Paragon weekly, about the performance of 305's, I believe he started in one he had in an ex Kevin Huntley roller.

You people with no 305 experience/exposure will be surprised at the performance of these cars.

Bill May

Yes, I am serious, which is why I posted it. To me it would be a horrible mistake to run them non wing. You are trying to appeal to a very hardcore non wing fan base. I think the idea is simply to appeal to their open wheel side and hope it gains traction. I personally don't like the class as whole, just my opinion, but if Bloomington speedway thinks that wing 305's will help keep the doors open then more power to them.

Again

Yet again how many tracks run 2 or 3 classes of the same exact looking cars every week? How could it be a mistake to run them wingless with the 410 cars?

Bob

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

wing-it or don`t bring-it. !

I have no clue. But I've personally never seen a show that was enjoyable that did it. I just feel if you don't do something to differentiate the two it will breed problems, like if the car count is low in one class or the other we just combine them for one etc. I don't see the problem with letting them run the class as they see fit.

Knoxville has 3 classes of winged sprints and they seem to do ok.
I think they have an announcer that helps people tell the difference . For those that can't hear and see the difference. Oh yaa they have a big lit up Sign board type thing too! It's new.

Show of hands ! How many people here have been so drunk that they didn't know if it was 305s 360s or 410s on the track?

Check out the scroll down feature on your screen! Don't read it if you don't like it. Now unless you have some facts to add to this discussion please refrain from posting.

Bob

Knoxville IA, Williams Grove, Attica OH, Fremont, OH for example run multiple classes of winged sprints weekly. Not to mention all the Northeast tracks that run 2 or 3 classes of East coast Modifieds weekly as well. So there are MANY tracks that run a successful weekly program with cars that look the same but have different sized engines.

Bob

My concern like the o.p. is track conditions. If midget week is any indication, track surface will take a beating. I'm willing, and do forgive the occasional hard, slicky but two big tire classes all season to me almost guarantees that to happen. Especially if one of them is winged.

If it's still worth the risk, then what about mandating 3 digit numbers and mufflers to differentiate? Or the old handkerchief tied to the cage?

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

Dirt

I consider myself pretty savvy and if they are the only show in town that night>>>

"I CAN'T HARDLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE"
and I don't drink very often or too much

Honest Dad himself:6::6:.

It's easier at knoxville .

Can a track just try something new!! I personally like the idea of running 305 with wings.

I believe I addressed this subject also with a response that was heavily laced with sarcasm (unbeknownst to a few in the crowd).

How about the tires on the cars... What will they be?... The same as the non Wing cars so the low buck 305 guys could just get used tires from the non wing team they are pited next to? Or will it be the Wing tires that only a few Indiana races have?.....if low buck 305 guys have to start buying new tires because it's hard to get good used tires that just drives the cost up even more.

A bit sarcastic again on the difference between 305s 360s n 410s , but come on guys ! We r all avid fans and we r smart enough to figure out wich is which. For the novice fan, we just want them to enjoy the product enough to come back again . Right?

I think they have to look different!! They are people who like wings. With that in mind now Bloomington gets both fan bases on the same night. More fans and the doors stay open. I would also say that if you crash with a wing on it will absorb some of the force and maybe not tear up as much of your bolt on parts. Yes u crunch a wing however your not destroying everything else. However, either way getting upside down is not cheap!! If your not a wing fan dont bash the idea use that as an intermission to get some ice cream and enjoy the red clay on a friday night. Also MOWA put on a great show and didnt hurt the track. Inhave to admit it was nice seeing the wing cars back there

Michael Koontz

Every once in a while, we forget the basics of our sport. We need to continue to grow our fan base. We need the casual fans to grow our fan base. Having classes that look different is a great way to build interest. We have the same car problem with modifieds. Having three classes of modifieds is crazy. I do not know how many times I have heard the new fan say "now, how these cars different? Didn't this class just race? This makes no sense."

I also agree 100 percent that the 305s should have wings. What if the 305s bring a winged fan to the races who started to like non wing racing?

You are all missing the point. Racers cost to operate! This is why I don't frequent this board often. Think about the points that have been brought up about costs. Has any single person had a valid reason to run the wings other than a fan perspective? It doesnt matter what the fans think if the racers cant afford to run the car. I think a cheaper class of Sprints is a great idea. And I would be interested in being and owner/driver. But not with a wing on it.

Bob

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

Racer

You can always go to "Vintage Racing". They will let you race them even without a roll bar hoop. Those were real racers. Too bad they died so young, but what the heck the average lifespan back then wasn't but about 45 years old.

Honest Dad himself:6::6:

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

re: Jon,Mk & Dirt, Looks like some viewers are beginning to figure this thing out, The folks at Bloomington Speedway are not entering into this without a purpose or plan, and as usual, some viewers just don't like them, however, the RACING goes on for all. How about we all be thankful that a Friday night "Indiana" track is planning to operate for the 2015 season, personally, I'm looking forward to it.

Bill May

And without fans, no track owner can open the track for you to race your car. Regardless of whether it has a wing on it or not.

Its a weekly running track. The fans are already there. Yet again missing the point.

Bob

Bob thank you for considering being a car owner. What are we all missing. Because im thinking about it also. I know sometimes when you get your thoughts in one direction you can get tunnel vision. Im sure im not thinking about something. Lets build a car

Just like Gas City?

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

those 305 guys spend about as much money as the 410 guys and I like the non wings better than wings but I still like all sprint cars. I think it will all be good racing and I am looking forward to the races.

I've been told there are no on track wing adjusters and the racesavers will be held to 10 degrees to keep from dragging the motors down

Me too !!! I'm looking forward to it ! When I make my return trip to bloomington/midget week. I hope to see 305s 410s and midgets.
Look me up , I'll b the one with the ice cream cone (with a dusting of red dirt)and a BIG smile!!

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

Joe, I am pretty sure hoosier is designing a spec tire for next year thats runs $160 to 170

Re: Why wings for 305 class?
 

I had the same concern when I first heard about this class. I thought it should be non wing. Personally I have seen better nonwing races than wing. After thinking for a while I see things to consider. #1 Wings will be good for the 305's otherwise they will just look like slow underpowered non wings. #2 Everytime I am around general public they associate sprint car racing with being wing rather than non wing. I also notice many kids are into seeing wings sprints more than nonwing. This just happens to be what I observed. Others may totally disagree.