T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

I can't remember but was the car Shane was hurt in also a Champ car? If so, don't someone think they should be rethinking the design of the cages on these cars. Thats a pretty long bar that runs parallel to the car on top of the cage. Always safety first as we all like to see these drivers get out of the car under their own power. Glad you are alright T-Mez and hope to see Shane race again.

Yeah same car, and same track as well
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Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Note the extra triangulation in the roll cage of
the Rotondo - Weirich 2011 Silver Crown cars:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL72.../397559657.jpg

Compared to their 2010 cars which most
other champ cars are still similar to:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL72.../397559658.jpg

This was pointed out by my friend Wade Seiler who also noted that any
unbraced side roll cage tube that can deform enough to reach the drivers
head is a concern. This is the tube in question:
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL72.../397559865.jpg

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

It doesn't matter how much you brace that top "halo" of a car.. when you take a car that weighs 1500 plus the driver, and throw a speed of well over 100 mph and hit the cage right on the wall somethings going to give.. and if it doesnt give, then the drivers neck and back will.. there is only so much you can do to these cars to make them safe.. only thing else is to encase the drivers in foam and make the walls made out of down feathers... It sucks to see someone get hurt racing, but we get in these cars with the knowledge and understanding that things can go from sugar to $hit in .01 seconds..

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Im not so sure. Im not a designer but the area seems much bigger than a sprint or midget. Could some Triangled bracing be added to the sides to support the halo while still allowing some collapsability? Downside would be only access through top of cage.

Chuck, who says 9racing has great points about the weight and size but to say nothing can be done, Well im not so sure.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

well without wanting to step on anyone`s toes in here......esp. one with the 9racing name.....if you have accidents with the damage happening to the halo i say...never say never......thicker wall tubing and better triangulation...and many other steps that should be taken to prevent this type of crash..........:41::

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

I think what you are looking at in that picture is actually a driver window net, not bracing.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

you can tear up a freight train at 30 mph ,if you hit /get hit just right, and if you get too rigid, something has to give up somewhere else, at some point.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

There is another bar coming from the side tube up to the tube that holds the rock guard. Sorry not tube savvy, But if ya look at it you can see it.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Don't see that but now I do see window nets on both sides of the rollcage.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

I think there could be some knowledge and understanding out there for some improvement and not to just say ahhhhhhhh what the heck in .01 seconds. Maybe this will get some people thinking in that direction. Thank you.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

The window nets look to me to be hooked to that added bar.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

That is right ...there is a new bar that comes down from the top of the cagr right at the front bend of the down tube to the middle rail and the ney id attached to that net...maybe add a halo might be the answer

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

One thing I noticed on a few of the cars, some of them had a few extra bars on top (extra strength or different car maybe?).

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Its not the chassis fault on either of the impacts that happened, its the MORON that took the guardrail down and replaced it with a CONCRETE 90 deg cornered wall. Everyone knows this is the most dangerous track we run at, and unfortunately someone will die here before they either A.) Shut it down or B. make a safer wall.

Why does this sport require such bad things to "nearly" happen and do nothing, knowing its going to..... *Tick Tock Tick Tock*

But hey they cant even manage to get a little track prep for a few days in in so moving the wall, or changing the design will never happen.

It is sad that a track with such nostalgia is already gone were just in a fantasy land because there isnt a parking lot there yet.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

I've made this point before, but they should take down the walls on each end and add some run off area like Bloomington has. There is already space past the walls anyway, just extend it further out and put up some kind of catch fence past the run off area in case a car is completely out of control and can't get stopped. The cars are going way too fast to have a concrete wall waiting for them. I was at the race where Shane was hurt last year, and saw what can happen when a car hits them going that fast. I never want to see something like that again.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

As much as the people on this board hate Napcar, you have to admit that when they decided to attach the safety of the cars, the cars did improve. It is obvious that the silver crown cars are in need of some of this same re-engineering. To say nothing could be doneto fix the cars is just being lazy.

Another thing that Napcar did was not only fix the cars, but to start working on improving the tracks. Once again, to say nothing could be done to the fix the tracks is just being lazy.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Them cars look pretty safe to me and I'd run one in a seconds notice, I didnt see the latest crash your talking about but watched the Shane video over a hundred times. The way that car hit on that concrete, it couldnt have really hit at a worse angle. I give the wall most of the blame for that situation.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

What some tracks do if they have wall is to build the catch fence where it comes all the way down to the top of the wall and it's mounted flush to the edge that is closest to the track,therefore when you flip you go into the catch fence and can't even land on top of the wall,or like Ascot used to be there was a dirt shelf made by putting dirt behind the wall until it's level with the top of the crash wall then they had old car tires stacked up on top of the wall and dirt shelf which really cushioned the blow of landing up there.No sharp edges or or narrow pieces of concrete to land on in either one of these applications.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

What many have said about the wall is true. Modern Racing walls are mounted banked to the track banking and also Catch Fences will bounce a car back instead of hitting the top of the wall. THAT Is far from the only track using jersey barriers for retaining walls with no catch fence, However it may be one of the most flat and high speed to do so.

I've only been too four THAT races and seen one car exit the track *NIGG* that was way scary but was probably better than hitting the wall cage first. Either option is a costly investment for the fair board. I don't see it happening honestly. You could bury some tractor tires highth wise along the wall in the turns but then you risk having a surface to hook on if the cushion goes that high.

The choice remains, You either race on it or you don't.

BTW, Anyone determine if it was the wall or another car hitting the cage? Don't seem like anyone could have even seen what happened.

Chuck

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Sargent didnt remove the guardrail JAMIE REED did was told to repair guardrail instead he removed it because cement blocks was donated

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

The guard rails were way safer. And even if it were a USAC show, you were going to wind up standing around for something (so fixing the guard rail was no big deal)

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

hey lets use guardrails...maybe we can cut someones neck off....yeah that will be fun to watch....:44:

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Whatever happens we all learn what not to do but improve and make it better. Here is a shot we learned from this was from 78 or 79. The driver was ok and was very lucky

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

guardrails work good if they are the right ones for the job, keep head in car at all times. I forget where it was at but they had guardrails and our driver he used to say it was his favorite place to crash.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

The damage T Mez got had nothing to do with a wall impact, you people are all going off the deep end. It was an impact with Jeff Swindell. As he told me Sunday, "I didn't see him until I hit him". The dust was way too thick.

As for safety, Terre Haute isn't any more dangerous than anywhere else,(when the track is prepared correctly). I've seen guys hurt and crippled everywhere from the Indy Speedrome to the Indy Mile. Accidents happen unfortunately, but that's racing at it's worst.

As for Shane's wreck at Terre Haute, it was just an unfortunate freak occurance. It is the ONLY time in my 40 plus years of racing I've ever scene a car hit like that.

As for safety and Nascrap, you are also looking in the wrong direction. The man to thank is Tony George. Remember this, when the safer barriers first came out Nascar said NO! They changed their mind real quick after Earnhardt. Remember this, when it comes to safety, Indy is the leader, Nascar is the follower.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

I actually did see it, just happened to be looking in the right place, the dust had cleared from the stands enough in the open bleachers. What I saw was T-Mez vertical pointing toward the sky in the middle of the backstretch and then coming down upside down on top of another car's front end and rolling off. He did not hit a wall. I think when he hit Swindell he climbed his tire and went into the air vertical.

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Yes, the RW cars do have extra bracing on the cages this year, they spent time with BEAST after Shane's accident trying to make the car safer.. Angled braces to try to help the cage from collapsing like it did on the 17. But like everyone has stated, The angle of the Impact and the 90 degree edge of the concrete wall was a recipe for disaster.. Leave the concrete up but give a catch fence, I can recall Grant and Nigg clearing the fence in the past 2 years, might have even been just last year alone!

Re: T-Mez & Shane Hmiel Roll Cages
 

Consider yourself lucky if that's the only time you've seen a car hit like that,In my 30+ years of working on race cars I've seen two friends die and a couple of others seriously maimed from exactly that reason.Yes racing is dangerous and it always will be,but that is no reason to to be blind to things that can actually be fixed and made safer.Freak accidents will happen,but why needlessly push the envelope.
I've seen the results of these accidents up close and personal and believe me it isn't pretty.:13::7: