time trials
 

I for one would be in favor of abolishing time trials, they take forever, they destroy the track before the racing begins, and if you draw a late slot, you're all but done for the nite from the git-go. I say draw for starting spots in the heats and race your way into the feach. top eight re-draw for starting positions 1-8, then the next eight re-draw for 9-16, then the b-main transfers re-draw for 17-24.

if you absolutely insist upon time trials, put 10-12 cars out at a time and do what usac calls European time trials.

the track surface at the 'put' was worn out before the midget time trials were done last nite

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Re: time trials
 

The reason that track was destroyed wasn't time trials it was because they were expecting a ton of rain and sealed it over the day before. If it don't rain, You can never get the amount of moisture you need. Don't seal it and you get the rain, YOU PROBABLY wouldn't see any race.

Qualifying usually takes place Prior to start time, Why eliminate them for Fans who like them and Teams that Prefer them?

Not arguing but I see qualifying as a part of the sport. At least when higher money is on the line.

good points Chuck, but i'd still rather save the track for the racing/ and provide a more fair opportunity for all the competitors/ but either way i'll hopefully be there

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For me time trials is a race in itself. Keep them and do it single quals instead of group BS.

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It can go either way.Doing a pill draw for starting positions can put you behind the 8 ball right from the get go also. Let em strap in and settle it themselves versus dealing with a lucky or unlucky draw. Just my own opinion, no one elses.

My biggest peav is b main transfers in my eyes should always start at the tail no questions ask.. If you dont make it through the heat you start in the back !

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Single car qualifying is a prt of the show that I pay for.

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how about we just draw for the Daytona 500 ,indy 500 everything lets just draw for the features and just skip all the other stuff that makes it a compeditive sport then everybody can be home early. we all no how important a good draw is and tracks do slowdown or get faster some times but at least u have a chance. when u draw for start spots u have no chance to change ur starting spot. as for the tracks getting burned up that's up to the people that prep them. all tracks use to qualify in Indiana and the racing was great and I don't think we get home any earlier now but we sure bend more race cars than we use to

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i think the qualifying format brownstown in. used for the sprint car race in early spring worked the best where you qualify in groups of ten, but still single car qualifying, then each group is set up in the same heat race, eleminates the bad draw of going out toward the end.

Every single track used to qualify and still manage to put on good shows.. So you just gotta ask what's changed? The draw deal sucks unless you do passing points, but for some reason tracks think that is too difficult to figure out. Its just my opinion, but qualifying has always been part of racing, and it has gone away because it's easier then fixing the problem..

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How about keep Time Trials and run, (wait for it) "NIGHT SHOWS", 3/4's of the event is run in the sun light. Some of ya's might have to miss the 10 O'clock news, but I would bet track conditions would be a lot better. Starting too early, Day Light savings time and the sun are killing your tracks, not Time Trials.

P.S..Whats the difference if you start TT at 5:30 then take an hour and a half throughout the night to keep up with the track. Just start at 7:00, then less laps will be run in the hot sun...The water truck should be on the track at 5:00, not race cars.. JMO...:32:

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I agree about Last Chance or B Feature drivers getting to start as high as 7th place in the A feature. If you don't transfer through your heat your should start no closer than behind all of those that did transfer. To a certain extent it makes the heat races meaningless.

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...but it can sure make the B main a lot more interesting...

Why stop with drawing for heats? Just have them draw for the feature. Heck, get rid of the feature too, just have everyone draw, the number you draw is where you finish the night. Saves the track and gets everyone home at a decent hour. But then all the keyboard jockeys wouldn't have anything to ***** about.

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I always have liked single car qualifying. It's great being able to concentrate on one car and hear the driver work the throttle. That being said, I like passing points too. I really don't know what the perfect system is, I think it doesn't exist.

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I was only able to make it to two of the midget shows thus far, lps and the burg. tracy hines drew a late slot at both places and his nite was effectively over before it started. the burg wasn't near as dried out as lps was for him/ but both places had gotten a good bit wider and the times had gotten increasingly slower(another reason I don't care for time trials) so I guess if you're going to have em, get the track super wet and tacky to start with, so the track isn't spent before time trials are over. I see I've been corrected and it may have been daren hagen i'm thinking of as drawing a late slot at lps, (my memory is terrible as of late) but I recall it was one of the top runners.

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Heres whats great about TT to me, You think the tracks gone or no possible way a driver could touch the early qualifyers times and the last DUDE/DUDETTE that goes out there and SETS QUICK TIME!!!!!!!!!!! I seen drivers late in qualifying at the Burg put on good times and different lines like going in high and diving off the banks. It was awesome.

As others have pointed out, Every track used to qualify and IMHO it went away not because it wasn't popular but tracks started running 4-5-6 classes and needed a way to shave time off the show. They also did Trophy dashes and had the winner of each race stop at the flag stand for photos and let them get applause from the fans on the track, Not after they'd pulled off.

IMHO Midget week has outgrown the three classes (Not that I don't like the Mods/SS or whatever the third class is)

How about run Two top classes like Midgets/Sprints. Qualify both or Passing points and increase the sprint purse a bit to draw more?

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better check again tracy was 4th quick at lps but didn't transfer from the heat and started 8th in the feature. so great point went out late and still had a good lap lOL.

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Hey Brian... we need to make a setup adjustment to your brain, the wire connecting your eyes to your brain isn't working correctly. Tracy was 3rd quick not 4th at LPS.

:3:;)

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Yeah, great idea, make it so greasy the first ten qualifiers' nights are "effectively over".
Here's the thing; a dirt track is constantly changing, and one of the things that draws me to it is watching everybody trying to figure it out, from hotlaps through qualifying, heats, semis (if you haven't figured it out yet) on up to how the track is going to be at the beginning, middle and end of the feature. When you get a late draw, someone like a Tracy Hines has the experience and skill to adjust for what they think the track will be like when they go out. When they hit it, it's magic to watch, and every bit as exciting as a hard fought feature. Pack qualifying doesn't have the same energy, and it's too hard to keep up with. Pill draw? What if you draw a bad pill? Your night's "effectively over" then, too. Give me good, old fashioned single-car quali's any day; and while you're at it throw in a 4-car 4-lap trophy dash and give quick time the honor of parading the flag during the anthem.
That's how you start a night of Sprint Car or Midget racing in Amurrica, Son.

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that's even worse. lol its funny isn't it if he would of drawed bad and started on the tail I guess that would've been ok but draw bad and qualify bad well that's just not ok :10:

Time trials at the Burg last night was great..

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alright, one more thing. back in the day we used to do time trials and the slowest driver started on the pole and the fastest driver started last. that provided some a** kicking racing (usac still does a somewhat similar deal to that in the heat races, but still starts the fastest guys up front on the features) call me old school, but that has never made a lick'a sense to me. if we have to waste time with time trials, start the slowest guy on the pole and the fastest guy last throughout the course of the night and then I think I might start liking time trials again.

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Keep talking Mr. Thunderhead, your credibility is taking a hit as big as the hit you have taken to the head.:15::10:

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I still love single car time trials I want to see every time the cushion ripples every bicycle every car going all out Not hearing Yeah I drew the 1 pill

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I guess I am super old fashioned...I like single car time trials. I would even go further and give a little time between cars so you could hear some info about the drivers going out and the one just timed when it is quiet. Could create excitement and good general info for those that don't know the drivers well.

I am from the day when sprint car racing meant that is what you saw. Hot laps, Time trials, Heats, C / B feature, Feature, Pits, then go home. I would rather pay more and have no support classes. That's just my preference.

Even if there are just enough cars for 3 heats and no B. I would still prefer just sprints.

You sir should get a track, have qualifying, and start the fastest guys in back ALL night and i'll watch 30 cars fighting for slowest lap time... I saw it the first time Badger did that indoor race in WI (Jerry qualified last haha)

I love qualifying. Watching a sprint car single car qualify at places like Terre Haute is my little slice of heaven at a race track. Yes sometimes it sucks when you're super late on bad tracks, but sometimes it sucks when you draw the back of a heat race on hard to pass tracks, or when you draw the pole for passing points on easy to pass tracks when you can win the heat and still be in the B main!
Every format has pros and cons. I love that we qualify in USAC then go to Kokomo and qualify in your group (which I think is the BEST local track format out there). It's fun to switch it up!

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Nailed it, Qualifying at Terre Haute is a event in itself! :)

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Years ago at Gas City during sprintweek there was a major thunderstorm that delayed the start. Eric Shively was the first car out to qualify and after his 2 laps I turned to the fellow next to me (I think it was Danny Burton) and said "Well I just got my money's worth". That's how much I like watching non-winged sprintcars qualify.

care to clarify your futile attempt of an insult mud packer?

and racing girl, race laps were monitored and anyone caught running consistently under their time and construed to be sand bagging was disqualified/ lol, race promoters might be a bit daffy sometimes, but they ain't that dumb!

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No clarification needed. Just keep posting.:)

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One of the several things I hate about the pill draw is when one of the heats is loaded with quality cars and driving talent, resulting in several hot dogs being relegated to the "B". Meanwhile, a heat full of......ummm, less expensive rides and less experienced shoes is transferring four of them to line up in front for the feetch. I've seen some hellacious tangles result from that. :18:

Another bothersome thing is when one of my boys (see Logan Hupp, Landon Simon, Chad Boespflug, and others) are consistenly drawing a bad pill. :15: Maybe a course in effective pill drawing would help. ;)

A note to Bill "The Boss" Gardner: The "Like This Post" feature doesn't seem to be working for Mr. Thunderhead. Might want to look into that.

Re: time trials
 

Marv, I think one of the things people don't undertand about qualifying, is as someone else mentioned before, back a few years, more than some are old, when you went to a Sprint car race, or a Midget race, that's about all that was there, not 5-8 divisions, just one, maybe 2 on a special occassion, and qualifying was how you got your starting position for the heat races, and it was not only expected, it was required. Now days with all the different divisions, and fewer cars, and even fewer butts on the boards, to expedite the events of the evening, has come the pill draw, which even some drivers like, because they don't qualify well, myself, I prefer to run where they qualify, which in my case, is mostly all the fair grounds tracks, and we are maybe the only racing on the card, one thing about it, if you screw yourself qualifying, you don't have anyone to blame but yourself, yes to some it may be boring, but to me, it's my one chance at the track, by myself, or my drivers, to see what we've got under us for setup for the evening. With our method of pill draw and heat race scoring, it isn't real bad to pill draw, but even then, sometimes you just can't overcome a high 50's draw! JMHO. Bob

the first time I saw the pill draw vs. the time trial was back in the 60's when I went back east and made it to some big-time eastcoast style modified shows, I liked it immediately/ race your way in!

and guys you're still drawing a pill for your slot for time trialing, and your odds of drawing a bad slot (I. e. a late slot if the track is drying out, or an early slot if the track is too wet; either way, when the track is slower) are the same as drawing a bad starting position.

I can live with time trialing, I just prefer the pill draw/ I hate seeing the fastest guys always starting up front in the b-mains and a-mains, they will prolly still end up winning, because they are faster, but lets make the racing more exciting while making them work for it and giving the rest of the field a little better shot at it!

p.s.; and yes bill "the boss" gardner, by all means, please fix that like button!


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Re: time trials
 

Picture this. You finally talked someone who has never seen a sprint car race into going. Cars come out and proceed to circle in groups and the green flag drops. The newbie asks "what is going on". You reply " they are qualifying now". "Really, but how do I know who is doing what, this is my first time; it seems very confusing".

Single car qualifying helps to set the stage, is a great buildup and particularly helps those who are new to match driver and car. Many time I have taken newbies, helped with names and numbers as hot laps are pushed off and then watched the new fan enjoy qualifying because they now have a frame of reference.

Doing away with single car qualifying delegitimizes the sport, confuses the newbie and shortchanges the fan and the competitor if Lady Luck does not shine on their draw. Yes, you can have a poor draw even when qualifying is used, but at least you have a chance to compete.

In the words of Tom Carnegie "Its a new track record" can go along way in building anticipation and enthusiasm!

As someone said earlier the real problem of worn out surface is related to weather, start times, and yes, big, fat soft tires.

you can never hear the name of the driver (let alone the sponsorship list) during time trials, as the next car comes out and lets rip before the last car has left the track. even if there should be a break in between, most track announcers are too busy talking about some silliness rather than utilizing the time to advise who is up next; so that is a rather moot point in favor of time trialing i'd say.

as far as new track records go/ I suppose there are some tracks where you still get them, but over the years, there's been a lot of effort spent in slowing the cars down and in filling in the bottoms of high-banked dirt tracks to lessen the degree of banking in order to slow them down too

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Two of the best announcers for giving driver information had to be Jack Miller and Dave Van Patten.

I would rather know more about a driver than what chassis or shocks he is running.

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I'd like to meet the person who thought it was a good idea to do a pill draw for sprint car racing.

My foot needs to perform a colonoscopy. :33:

QUALIFYING = RACE YOUR WAY IN!

I would like to see 1 lap qualifications for the sprint car division. It gives the fans the opportunity to know exactly who is in what car for that particular race event, gives a moment for exclusive sponsorship recognition, and even a moment for a driver little known fact, among other possibilities.
As a driver, it allowed me to gauge my week to week performance, and to see if various set-up changes made a difference. It also made for more evenly matched heat races based on the staggering of the qualification results. ( instead of stacked heats/ weaker heats, as is often the case). Also, you didn't know who was going to be your competition in your heat race until it was determined by qualifying (performance). Whereas with pill draw or group quals, you already know beforehand.
BTW, only having 1 lap quals will not be as significant of a detriment in the event that a late qualifying effort is required.
Advertise qualifications starting at a certain time. If fans choose not to arrive until the advertised race time, that is at their discretion.
QUICK TIME!!! sounds much more exciting than "good draw, dude". lol


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Invert the heat race starting positions, either 4 or 6, depending on car count. (could be the fast qualifier draws for the invert). B Main starts straight up per qualifying times. If you run the B Main, you cannot start any better than 10th for the A Main. Have the quickest qualifier already in the A Main draw for the A Main invert ( 4,6, or 8).
Just my thoughts...

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Re: time trials
 

Amazing though how the best racers always seem to be able to qualify toward the front even with a bad pill draw.

It seems that in most parts of the country they keep trying to change racing to make it easier and more about the money a racer spends instead of how much talent he has. Then after they have taken the spectator appeal out of it people wonder why the stands got so empty