Engine question?

[aceace]

I realize that all these Sprints are running the aluminum block/head high dollar motors. My understanding is that they run about 35-40,000 new and you can find a used one for about 20,000. I am curious as to why the Sprints/Late Models just don't pass a rule requiring all cars to use one of these Dart cast iron blocks.(there are others available) They are similar to the 400 blocks from 1970-80 era except they have been improved substantially for oil and water flow and the 4 bolt main caps are beefed up and splayed. They run about $1500 and a top of the line "new" motor runs less than $10,000 with Alum/heads and Lunati bottom end. Would this go a long way to bringing cars back to the tracks? I know there is a scora series that requires steel blocks but the purse seems to take a plunge somewhat. I don't think anyone could tell the difference if all Indiana tracks were running these.

[spicoli]

Every cast iron block I ever ran cracked somehwere, then it's junk. I've seen aluminum blocks get the botom blown out of them, and be repaired and are still running strong.

Because they can't easily be fixed, I'll never run an iron block again.

Too bad those iron block series don't have a rule like they used to, where aluminum block cars had to carry extra weight. Might fill out the fields.

[Tony74]

Steel blocks are cheaper to buy upfront but if you crack or damage the block it can rarely be fixed, where aluminum blocks can be welded up re-machined several times. There are also alot of used aluminum blocks out there for good prices that can be fixed and raced again.

[Larryoracing]

All the answers were excellent, but I just feel that the statis quo would not allow it.

On the same note as above, there are steel blocks and there are better ones. Some of the steel aftermarket blocks are not as strong as others and I think the steel blocks in the 1500 dollar rage fall in that category.

Larry "O" and good question.:31:

[slide22]

The only real way I see to cut cost is to have less wide rear tires. Have you seen these things? They're massive. Take some of that rubber away and you won't need the $45,000 engine. Look what smaller tires does for e-mods and late models. Use Lawrenceburg's tire rule so you can run the American Racer or Hoosier and you're in business:D

[old timer]

Good question but here is the reason steel blocks will not work. One of our blocks is dart steel that was prepared by a well know shop and the price including new block was 4,250.00 now we didn't buy it new but someone did. So if you pay good purses then all the big boys will be spending that.

[dant]

Compare apples and apples.....the differance in price between al. vrs. steel is what $2500 , a $40000 dollar al. block motor would cost you $2500 less with a steel block...block ain't the costliest part ..close to 900 hp cost $ ...tire rule is the answer I agree

[slide22]

Compare apples and apples.....the differance in price between al. vrs. steel is what $2500 , a $40000 dollar al. block motor would cost you $2500 less with a steel block...block ain't the costliest part ..close to 900 hp cost $ ...tire rule is the answer I agree

I know this is an idea thats way out there, but set a minimum weight for just the engine. Could eliminate some of the crazy materials and machining being done to these things.

Of course it would be a pain to pull everyone's engine out and weigh them...

[Larryoracing]

Hey Slide22,

Your a genius. But even if the wt rule was 2000lbs for the whole car I still don't think you would get 30 cars.
But if you got 50 I think you were on to something. I really feel nobody has any money to go racing.

And until we have a time of rapid growth, nobody will be racing.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. Now that I have said that, you will see an emergence of racing where the cost is really cheap.
Like hobby:31: stocks or some type of racing where it don't cost anything to build the car, race the car
or get it to the track.

[dant]

I know this is an idea thats way out there, but set a minimum weight for just the engine. Could eliminate some of the crazy materials and machining being done to these things.

Of course it would be a pain to pull everyone's engine out and weigh them... slide22,you looked pretty good with your first post [you must have read that in another thread]....heres what will work to get the cost down and the car count back up and growing....smaller harder tire on the RR,no cockpit adj.,1500 lbs car and driver min.....reasonable purse [not top heavy] and tow money ....the motor situation will balance itself cause 650 to 700 hp will be all the tire will hold..........BTW what crazy materials/machining are you reffering to..they do the same basic engine prep they did 20 yrs ago..some of the hand work is just CNC'ed now

[TQ29m]

Hey Slide22,

Your a genius. But even if the wt rule was 2000lbs for the whole car I still don't think you would get 30 cars.
But if you got 50 I think you were on to something. I really feel nobody has any money to go racing.

And until we have a time of rapid growth, nobody will be racing.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. Now that I have said that, you will see an emergence of racing where the cost is really cheap.
Like hobby:31: stocks or some type of racing where it don't cost anything to build the car, race the car
or get it to the track.LarryO, a reasonable weight rule could work, car and driver, but we were at Twin Cities Sat night, and there were 49 "Hornets" in the pits, and they bring as many as a dozen pit passes with them, it's like it was 8-10 years ago, when Pinto's were plentyful, they are affordable, and everyone can drive one, the promoters love them, we were one of either 7 or 8 divisions, there were probably close to 130 cars in the pits, got started late because they had missed the rain, ran every last one of those cars, and were outa there by 10:30. I heard someone on TV the other day, saying they felt the quality of racing was better, overall, people and promoters were still finding money and sponsors, than it had been in the not to distant past, people become more inventive, when times are hard, and as long as they can get some return on their money, they will race. I hate to see an organization come out with a rule book, written by a Philadelphia lawyer, and try to promote racing, keep it simple, put in rules that CAN BE INFORCED, and give the racers a chance to work within those rules. This country was built, by people that could build things, and that worked, how many old junk cars, were pulled from junk yards, and turned into race cars, not like todays state of the art Sprints and Midgets, but we have the resources yet, to do that, I hate spec tires, it limits your ability to run what you have available, I believe I read in the book about Smokey, he found some tires in a junk yard he liked, and he scrounged till he found 4 of them, and won a big race, because he only pitted for fuel, ran those same tires the entire race. This can go on and on, but someone, who is not concerned with his own personal feelings, will come up with a workable plan, and it'll be the Polish remedy for it all. Bob:32:

[dant]

LarryO, a reasonable weight rule could work, car and driver, but we were at Twin Cities Sat night, and there were 49 "Hornets" in the pits, and they bring as many as a dozen pit passes with them, it's like it was 8-10 years ago, when Pinto's were plentyful, they are affordable, and everyone can drive one, the promoters love them, we were one of either 7 or 8 divisions, there were probably close to 130 cars in the pits, got started late because they had missed the rain, ran every last one of those cars, and were outa there by 10:30. I heard someone on TV the other day, saying they felt the quality of racing was better, overall, people and promoters were still finding money and sponsors, than it had been in the not to distant past, people become more inventive, when times are hard, and as long as they can get some return on their money, they will race. I hate to see an organization come out with a rule book, written by a Philadelphia lawyer, and try to promote racing, keep it simple, put in rules that CAN BE INFORCED, and give the racers a chance to work within those rules. This country was built, by people that could build things, and that worked, how many old junk cars, were pulled from junk yards, and turned into race cars, not like todays state of the art Sprints and Midgets, but we have the resources yet, to do that, I hate spec tires, it limits your ability to run what you have available, I believe I read in the book about Smokey, he found some tires in a junk yard he liked, and he scrounged till he found 4 of them, and won a big race, because he only pitted for fuel, ran those same tires the entire race. This can go on and on, but someone, who is not concerned with his own personal feelings, will come up with a workable plan, and it'll be the Polish remedy for it all. Bob:32: Come on ,your trying to tell me some hornet class guy bought a 'dozen 'people at $35 a pop with him.......back gate moneys great but other than family Who comes to watch 'hornets'...open tire rules are fine but at a local track we run open tires ,guess what the rich guy winning runs new sc/gummy bears with his 890hp shaver,the rest of us run dt3 hand me downs from USAC...guess who won three races in a row..there is a balance we need to race -but I don't think junk yard classes and dumpster diving for tires is where were at...as far as a 'workable plan' goes ,so far the powers that be don't appear to have a clue ..the savior ,after almost 2 yrs. ,is asking for ideas,cause he didn't bring any:14:

[TQ29m]

Nope, it was $25.00, and they all paid their own way! I think if you'll ask Mason, he'll tell you they average about 5 pit passes per car, at least that's what he figures on. I never look in the stands, too busy, but my wife does, and she tells me how many or how few there are, and I didn't say we should go dumpster diving for parts, but there are sources other than always buying new, I've been racing something, since about 1953, and I have a good idea of what it costs to do it, doesn't matter what, Hornet, Cruiser, Go-kart, midget, jalopy, sprint car, even boats, and there are 2 things I won't do, jump out of a perfectly good airplane, or run a spec tire! Bob

[dant]

Nope, it was $25.00, and they all paid their own way! I think if you'll ask Mason, he'll tell you they average about 5 pit passes per car, at least that's what he figures on. I never look in the stands, too busy, but my wife does, and she tells me how many or how few there are, and I didn't say we should go dumpster diving for parts, but there are sources other than always buying new, I've been racing something, since about 1953, and I have a good idea of what it costs to do it, doesn't matter what, Hornet, Cruiser, Go-kart, midget, jalopy, sprint car, even boats, and there are 2 things I won't do, jump out of a perfectly good airplane, or run a spec tire! Bob Ok,5 pit passes /hornet.....sorry you feel that way about spec tires ,,I ran IMCA nonwing sprint with a Mcquery brick in the mid '90,had a home built 355 [$3000] and competed well,when the promoter changed to a better [stickyer tire ]motors/hp when up -cost went up, $15000 motors what you needed...I just think you can reverse the trend on the upper end sprint car racing..BTW I'm a pilot and skydive go figure...makes no sense:14:

[TQ29m]

I wasn't kidding, on the 12 people who paid pit passes to watch this guys wife drive, and 5 pit passes per car, any division, is what Mason figures on, and it usually works out for him, I guess I still prefer to do my own thing, my way, and we do quite well, I feel, and we sure don't break the bank doing it, and it is so sweet, when you can spank someone's butt, that does, I do my own work, build my own motors, chassis, most of the add on parts, I have my own machine shop, so it's not a per hr thing, and I tow with an F350 PSD, with just shy of 400k on the ticker, trailer is newer than anything else. I used to "spot", for some divers, had one get tangled in his main, upside down, he finally got it off, and got the reserve out, but he was damn near close enough to kiss, when it opened, I watch from away now, far, far away! Bob

[dant]

I wasn't kidding, on the 12 people who paid pit passes to watch this guys wife drive, and 5 pit passes per car, any division, is what Mason figures on, and it usually works out for him, I guess I still prefer to do my own thing, my way, and we do quite well, I feel, and we sure don't break the bank doing it, and it is so sweet, when you can spank someone's butt, that does, I do my own work, build my own motors, chassis, most of the add on parts, I have my own machine shop, so it's not a per hr thing, and I tow with an F350 PSD, with just shy of 400k on the ticker, trailer is newer than anything else. I used to "spot", for some divers, had one get tangled in his main, upside down, he finally got it off, and got the reserve out, but he was damn near close enough to kiss, when it opened, I watch from away now, far, far away! Bob Gotcha ,the mother in law deal can get 20-30 pit passes ,especially if you leave the fuel cap loose and turn the straight pipe up towards it...if the shoot doesn't open their ref:5:ferd to as 'bouncers' not 'divers':5:

[Lucky161]

Budget racing, particularly with sprint cars is a subject near and dear to me. That's one reason I am so excited about the Racesaver series rules and the Sprint Series of Texas that runs in this area. Is this a good place to talk about them or should I start a new thread?

[Larryoracing]

:2:What would happen if you had a sprint car event that cost 1000 dollars to enter. You could bring anything you wanted. Let says you got 50 takers and I will let you decide how much goes to first, second, etc.

Somehow I think this would be a very interesting race. Make it a 50 lappers.

Larry "O"

[Lucky161]

Personally I am opposed to racers paying their own purse and that's what I think that would be.

[Larryoracing]

Yep, that is probably the right answer. The only reason I brought it up was once I was into "Cutting" horses a little bit. At least as someone learning the ropes. Once a year they had a big show at the Cow Palace. The best riders in the country and of course they came in the big trucks, just like sprint cars. And yes they were all great riders, but I would like to think if you had a good horse and were a good rider you could win. Entrant fee was 4500 dollars.
And that is how they got the 125,,000 first place, etc, etc, etc. Of course they didn't really care about the money that much. It's nice....lol! What they really wanted was to win, and if they could win the three biggest events in the year through out the states, it was called the Triple Crown. Very few people ever one all three events, but that was the objective. :10:

Sincerely,

Larry "O"

[interpreter66]

Yep, that is probably the right answer. The only reason I brought it up was once I was into "Cutting" horses a little bit. At least as someone learning the ropes. Once a year they had a big show at the Cow Palace. The best riders in the country and of course they came in the big trucks, just like sprint cars. And yes they were all great riders, but I would like to think if you had a good horse and were a good rider you could win. Entrant fee was 4500 dollars.
And that is how they got the 125,,000 first place, etc, etc, etc. Of course they didn't really care about the money that much. It's nice....lol! What they really wanted was to win, and if they could win the three biggest events in the year through out the states, it was called the Triple Crown. Very few people ever one all three events, but that was the objective. :10:

Sincerely,

Larry "O"

maybe hewitt should enter:2: